Been thinking about what happened in France...

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Absolutely not. I am saying people should ignore those who do nothing but sit around thinking of trashy insults for others and instead focus on the ones with legitimate criticisms and those willing to get off their butts and go do something to help those whose rights are endangered.

If you want to sit around offending everyone and everything it is your business but why should people pay attention to you?

I am all for criticism and action against tyrants but not this bs waste of time where people are just you-know-whatting and calling it satire or freedom fighting or whatever. It is what it is.

Think of it this way, a couple of weeks or months ago, someone might have seen Charlie Hebdo, flipped through the pages and thought, I am never spending my money on that simply because they don't like it. Now this has happened, we are pressured to buy the next issue when it comes out or we aren't on the side of freedom. Well, I say there are other ways to support freedom besides buying a magazine you found offensive when you looked at it a few weeks ago.

Who is fighting for democracy? I see troops who fight for (fair?) remuneration, but the idea that it is at all justifiable to march into another country and impose your own political values on it is - well it's downright disgusting. They are programmed killing machines, not heroic protectors of liberty and democracy and Christmas and puppies.



You have this so backwards I could almost believe you were being satirical yourself. You're argument is that "people" - by which I assume you mean "all people" because you haven't specified otherwise - shouldn't read stuff you don't agree with? Seriously?

If you are so fervent about your own position, so certain theirs is wrong, and such a proponent of freedom and democracy, you would stridently support their right to express any opinion that differed from your own and suggest that everyone listen to both sides before coming to the inevitable "right" conclusion.

View this from about the 8 minute mark for what I think is an appropriate response to what happened at Charlie Hebdo:





If you feel pressured at all to buy something that you would not normally buy, that's down to you and you alone. Nobody will put a gun to your head and force you to purchase a copy of their magazine. Your argument contains no substance whatsoever.

Blaming the victim is despicable.

Especially when the actions taken against the victim are far more heinous than any insult the victim may have given (intentional or otherwise).

I have just added another name to my list of people to ignore, by the way ...

I have not blamed the victim, I just asked a legitimate question and I would ask the same of the ones taking rights away from people all over the earth. Why is it not allowed to talk about legitimate concerns? It's not entirely black and white.

This seems to be a vicious cycle and there are others who wonder the same thing, not just me.

Terrorism is never the solution but why do we buy into insulting behavior from others? That's all I am asking? There is a huge difference between insulting just to do it and criticizing. Of course it doesn't give anyone the right to storm into anywhere and act this way. I never justified that. I just asked a question. What is the point of being insulting and I feel like I have a right to ask that question.

All I have done is dared to question, not blamed anyone for the crime but the terrorists and simply asked why do we need to be so insulting and many others ask the same thing every day.

No matter what one says or does, someone is always going to be insulted. You can't help it. And those who feel insulted need to grow up and learn to deal with it as adults.

To instead try to turn the direction towards saying that maybe the cartoonists should not have drawn what they did is certainly a case of blaming the victims.

Religion is grounds for satire and criticism. Hell, I'm a Catholic and I don't bat any eye when people criticize the Pope or anything like that. If you're comfortable enough with your own religion, you aren't phased by satire, jokes or any of that stuff.

The people working there did not deserve to die.

All I typed is ignore what just seems to be insulting for the sake of insulting. That is what I would tell everyone to do and if it were up to me, they would all do it. There would be no violence. I am a complete pacifist and evadist meaning I would much rather ignore than ever get into a confrontation.

And there are plenty of people in this country who absolutely get terribly offended when Christianity is mocked.

If people would just ignore insults for the sake of insults, you wouldn't see it in the media. They only do it because people buy it.

If everyone followed my advice before now, all of them would still be alive because I would simply say ignore insults and leave it at that so how is that blaming or saying someone deserves violence?

I didn't perceive what you said as victim blaming either, though it could be considered disrespectful of the dead. It's immaterial either way, you have the right to say whatever you want, no matter how insulting others find it. Nor are you being disallowed to discuss the matter.



I'm not entirely sure what part you mean. Please explain further.



Why do you feel it appropriate to dismiss the free expression of others as insulting, in the same breath as complaining that you yourself are being denied free expression (which you weren't)? I'm not surprised you're struggling with this subject as you're demonstrating clear cognitive dissonance.

Allow me to make things clearer for you. Being "insulted" is an entirely subjective and irrelevant matter when it comes to freedom of speech and expression. You can either have the right to free speech or you can have the right to not be insulted - the two are mutually exclusive.

adifferentname -

We cannot fool ourselves by pretending there aren't rules we have to follow regarding what we say to one another. They exist at school, work, on internet forums, everywhere. It is considered verbal abuse to mock someone. That cannot be denied. This is a much bigger issue in society, much broader, the way people react to words and we have to recognize people do react. Everyday. For better or worse. We should all be concerned about this broader issue.

I am not trying to disrespect the dead, just asking some serious questions and I do wonder about other situations as well where there are insults involved. It could even be something as little as a fist fight only because someone mouths off and another gets offended. We have to come to terms words do affect people. It's just the way things are. This is what I meant by vicious cycle. People tend to be stuck in this. You see the same pattern in school shootings, domestic violence, bar fights, fights between friends and strangers. Someone gets angry because so and so said something they didn't like.

To me that's the underlying issue here.

Well, the problem is one man's mocking is another man's truth.

And truly with any common sense, it is plain to see that whomever is suggesting that Muhammad is some kind of last prophet or a man named Jesus OR YESHUA OR WHOMEVER is the LITERAL ONLY SON OF GOD, DOES need to be refuted through emotional expression of some kind.

AND truly EMOTIONAL EXPRESSIONS OF METAPHOR, INCLUDING SATIRE is the only way for REAL change per effect and AFFECT for human hearts that science now most definitely shows, overall, listens FIRST WITH EMOTIONS, INSTEAD OF REASON.

IF EVERYONE WAS STILL AFRAID to complain using sarcasm OR SATIRE to simply EXPOSE B.S., we could still be living in the CRUSADES WITH everyone in Church on Sunday morning or ELSE.

SO YES, in DEED, NO matter HOW crude the satirist journalists methods are they are still FREEDOM FIGHTERS FOR HUMAN Truth whether perceived by this human or that human as offensive AND/or ridiculously and ironically funny.

I already see the truth, so the satire is not necessary for me.

However for others, it apparently is.

And until folks do quit buying IT, in a free world of speech and expression, IT will continue to exist, come hell, high-water, death or whatever.

And the best thing of all, TRULY all of this ONLY FEEEDS THE FUEL FOR MORE HUMAN FREEDOM across the globe, so in effect and affect the terrorists are IN fullest impact committing suicide to their cause of effecting political change TO ENFORCE CENSORSHIP ON human freedom of speech and expression.

Perhaps, if they (the terrorists) grow some common sense they will figure that out, but I doubt it, as if they had any, they wouldn't do it in the first place.

Meanwhile, they will have their 'GOD' to face in the 'Karma' of NOW.

You see, Aghogday, I have nothing against criticism because that is how people learn and evolve. I just fail to see the point in insulting for the sake of insulting and I don't get why people enjoy that sort of thing. It might be funny the first time but eventually it just seems trite and boring.

Like I mentioned previously, I saw a really good cartoon about terrorism after the attack in France. It showed an armed terrorist and a man with a pen and it asked who has really done the most to harm Mohammed and the answer was blatantly obvious and it was full of irony. I thought it made a powerful statement without just looking like it was trying to insult and be offensive.

So I am all for people speaking their minds about what they dislike and there is plenty about Islam I disagree with, much as there is plenty about other stuff as well I don't like, but I try not to insult people just to be insulting when I express my opinions on what I dislike. And it goes without saying no one should lose their lives over petty insults or legitimate criticisms, either one.

I'm well aware of the rules and laws regarding what constitutes protected speech, thanks. Schools, workplaces and internet forums are subject to the rules of the governing body, whomever that happens to be. This is about freedom of expression in the public sphere, not the freedom to moderate behaviour on an internet forum or the protection of children from bullying.

Satirical mockery is protected by law, as long as it remains within the law.



Now we're definitely entering the realm of victim blaming. It's a short step from "It could even be something as little as a fist fight only because someone mouths off and another gets offended." to "Well, he deserved to get popped in the mouth because he was mouthing off.". "His words offended me" is not a reasonable justification for committing acts of violence against another human being.

The irrational, extreme or angry behaviour of other human beings is entirely their own responsibility. Your argument is that we should refrain from exercising our freedoms in case someone gets angry, yet you refer to the military action in the middle east as "fighting for democracy". Your arguments demonstrate that you don't understand the issue even remotely.

You fail to see the import of satire. That is your failing, not that of satirists or of satire itself.

I don't like to insult other folks either; however, sometimes as a method and stimulus for human hearted change, per emotion driving satire and sarcasm, IT is necessary to GET THE JOB DONE.

And OF COURSE the stuff 'they' do goes well beyond my extremely unique ways of sarcasm and satire to be the change I want to see, per my little effort in the world; however, I cannot judge and censor the EFFORT of others who are more extreme, lest I risk the freedoms I have now, which truly are incredible, as compared to the recent past, particularly in truly the 'FOOTLOOSE' town I grow up in, AS Systemizing ( aka Science) Study shows IS the TOUGHEST PLACE FOR 'DIFFERENT' IN THE entire U.S., per Pensacola, FL, where I exercise most of my human freedoms of non-verbal expression in real life.

http://mic.com/articles/76309/if-you-can-t-stand-hipsters-these-11-cities-are-for-you

I literally have to train to have the physical prowess of a pro-athete to 'get away' with my freedom of expression here, where I live.

My non-verbal language, on a local REAL basis, is much stronger than MOST folks Verbal Language, in accomplishing that 'FEAT OF FOOT'.

AND ALL I WANT TO do is inspire people to dance FREE, as that is what our ancestors did for tens of thousands of years, before they SIT still and stagnate to robot style/zombie like life.

THE Zombie Apocalypse cultural meme, most definitely has roots in modern human cultural reality.

'And that's easy as pie for Neo to see', at least when 'he' dances....!