why such huge veneration of science?

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This is a support site for Autism, which means that reciprocal social communication will not always be clear and or concise but, never the less, Tomato's general BIG PICTURE INSIGHTS are discernible enough to me, as I've been there and done the hard stuff.

There are lots of folks here who have really good grammar, spelling, and concise and coherent language with very little deeper insight about life, and yes, that's just a generalization that I have anecdotally noticed.

I am 54, have three college degrees, graduating at close to the top of the class through all of my academic career; a quarter of a Century wearing many hats in government service retiring at the NF4 level, which is equivalent to the GS9 to 11 pay grade. During my employment I directly interacted with tens of thousands of people during those over two decades in government service, as it was in public service for the military.

I've been married for close to 25 years, own a home, and am financially independent.

I have suffered through the worst pain known to mankind, per medical literature, described as type two trigeminal neuralgia, for over five solid years, during all waking hours as an almost complete shut-in.

At the beginning of that pain, I went for 40 days with only 1 hour of sleep each night with only the aid of a powerful alpha blocker, and none for the last 5 days out of that 40. The current NOTED world record for not sleeping at all is 264 hours or 11 days straight.

The one hour of sleep each night for the first 35 nights, provided by the Alpha-blocker did not refresh anything for me.

Additionally, I was diagnosed with a total of 19 medical disorders and given no chance of recovery by a doctor who was treating me.

A few more of the more challenging disorders were Sjogren's Syndrome, where my eyes quit making tears; Dysautonomia, where my blood pressure and heart rate would no longer synch together through neurological autonomic control, so I almost passed out just attempting to walk around my neighborhood block or after eating a meal; and fibromyalgia which is constant pain throughout one's entire body.

There was no pain killer that would do anything for the type two Trigeminal Neuralgia, which was like having a dentist drill a person's teeth without Novocain, except for in my case, it was in my right eye and ear making effective use of those sensory organs close to useless for five years.

The Autism diagnosis in middle age was no big deal at all compared to the rest of everything else EXCEPT for the fact that at the end of my career I was doing duties as financial manager for an entire department at a Navy Military Installation, Personnel, Payroll, General Accounting, Information Technology Support, Athletic director of that Military Installation supervising anywhere from 31 to 130 employees, and going toe to toe with a Captain of a Military Installation, filling in for the department head when necessary, AND ETC., ETC. ETC.; SO YES, the social stress did TEND to finally catch up with my abilities in that area of life, per the AUTISM challenge, per THE CHRONIC KIND of stress THAT can and WILL KILL FOLKS, LEFT UNESCAPED, LIKE IT ALMOST DID to ME.

The doctors had nothing to cure me, so I searched within and found the WILL, FAITH, BELIEF AND HOPE IN ME THROUGH THE REAL SCIENTIFICALLY EVIDENCED HEALING POWER NOW OF THE EASTERN PHILOSOPHY WAYS OF HEALING BY INCREASING PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE THROUGH practicing it and THEREBY regulating emotional intelligence and sensory integration to heal ONE'S OWN SELF through the real power of human HOPE, BELIEF, FAITH, AND WILL THAT ARE TRULY EMOTIONS AT CORE THAT MOTIVATE BOTH HUMAN ACTION AND HEALING.

SO YEAH, ALOT OF THAT HEALING stuff that Jesus was talking about in what is currently reported in the New Testament, no matter who really wrote it, IS TRUTH, and while science now shows it works, science still hasn't come up with an INSTRUCTION MANUAL THAT WORKS consistently FOR FOLKS TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

SACRED TEXT LIKE THE TEXT BELOW THAT IS LIKELY CLOSE TO TWO THOUSAND YEARS OLD, IS TRULY ABOUT AS GOOD AS IT GETS TO TRY TO EXPLAIN IT TO ANYONE, with eyes that truly see beyond black and white life.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

Oh, AND I almost forgot BUT I DID NOT, I Can prove the fact that It works as I have the documented evidence of me leg pressing 810 LBS with my legs, 12 TIMES, which is more than any 20 something year old Marine can lift at my elite Military Gym; me leading a diverse dance group of girls, numbering now in the 100's, documented as such in photos over the course of 40 weeks, at Old Seville Quarter in Pensacola, rated as one of the top 100 dance clubs in the U.S.; and dance walking 2800 miles in a martial arts/ballet mix in the 16 months since what at least one treating professional terms as a bonafide religious miracle occurred and all 19 disorders disappeared out of my life.

And, also at 232LBS now, and around 6 Feet tall, I do a PRACTICE of Nude Renaissance flesh and blood male art, in legal restricted blog way, approaching 10 thousands views, and several million words on other blogs, with close to one million views now on my clearinghouse site of art, per my Google Plus web page.

I've been around the block friend; now it's your turn; what have you done lately. ;)

If you don't want to tell and show like I do, I totally understand, as I used to be shy too, before I WENT TO REAL HUMAN HELL. HEAVEN IS MUCH EASIER no matter what one HAS TO DO.

My life is a miracle; just the fact that I am here at all, as there is NO RECORD OF ANYONE EVEN surviving what I survived per sleep deprivation and living, to just name one little hurdle of mine and MIND, relatively speaking, and truly my life IS PROOF THAT THIS THINGY THAT FOLKS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS PER A HIGHER POWER IS REAL AND TRUTH, PER THE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE THAT IS MY flesh and blood life.

YEAH, THE COOLEST THING OF ALL IS I DOCUMENTED THE WHOLE THING DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY AND CAN PROVE IT WITH NO DOUBT, EVEN to the NayEST of naysayers in life, with 'eyes' to see.

And nah, I AM NOT special, I just have the TRUE POWER OF WILL, FAITH, BELIEF AND HOPE ON MY SIDE, and in relative FREE WILL MASTERY, WHICH REQUIRES ABSOLUTELY NO RELIGION OR FAIRY TALES TO MAKE COME TRUE.

AS IT IS ALL NATURALE DOWN TO THE CORE OF WHAT Human being Means.

And HELL yes, of course I'm passionate about this.

If someone else was Lazarus or Job for metaphor, they would be at least, close to this passionate too; AND YOU CAN MARK MY WORDS ON THAT. :)

BUT anyway, thanks for asking friend, as sure, I've got a TRUE STORY TO TALE that is worth sharing, to most so-called 'normal people', anyway.

For what it's worth, I'm 60. I used to be the head of manufacturing and R&D for a small high tech company in the Houston area and was being groomed to become president of that company. Unfortunately, do a couple of bad decisions by the president of that company, that of trusting certain individuals when he should not have trusted them at all, the company ended in bankruptcy. I had only a couple of thousand shares less than the second largest stockholder and nearly ended in bankruptcy myself.

I have two degrees (Mathematics) and enough hours for for a doctorate in Computer Science. However, my committee chairman packed up and moved away leaving me with a new committee chairman who was interested in only one very tiny piece of the field, one that I was mildly interested in, but did not want to focus on it at all. My second choice was in computational neuroscience, but the only prof available for that was intent on retiring at the end of each year. He was in somewhat poor health and was supposed to have retired at the end of my first year back in school but didn't actually retire until I left.

As for sleep deprivation, I really don't consider that a good thing. The longest I ever went without sleep was from when I got up one Sunday morning until when I went to bed on Friday night. I was really miserable.

On other hand, I did go for ten years on about two hours of sleep a night. While I liked all the extra hours I had available to me, I hated missing out on my dreams which have always been quite pleasant. It was a bit disconcerting to instantly wake up to full consciousness. At first, I would crash for several hours every couple of weeks while working at one full time job and teaching college math classes in the next state over but after a few months it was strictly two hours a night unless I was taking medication that made me drowsy. I finally got sick one July and started getting more sleep. At first to 3 or 4 hours a night and then a couple of years later to about 5 or 6. Today, my sleep schedule is rather odd -- I may sleep 3 to 4 hours some days and 12 to 15 hours other days. It's very rare that I sleep more then 3 or 4 hours without waking up for at least an hour or two. Kind of like a First Sleep - Second Sleep pattern. Or one some days, First Sleep - Second Sleep - Third Sleep - Fourth Sleep.

I take it you never heard of a Thesaurus then

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/corruption

Which those synonyms listed do not have negative connotations? I suspect that the least negative is "nepotism".

Note, too, that purity, purification, and pureness are antonyms of corruption.

Any private definition of the word "corruption" that tries to claim it is about purity is just plain wrong.

^^Note the word purity.


I have seen the word used in all sorts of ways. For example, I've seen blood described as corrupt when it contains a disease.

But still... regardless of the semantics or definition, as I said, I can see what tomato meant, for any definition you care to use, and I thought I was pretty clear explaining that. Please tell me if I wasn't.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that Eric, and as i say I am NO ONE SPECIAL..:)

i think you are more special than i am.. in FACT..:)

My partner is an accomplished historian with a wall covered in awards, degrees and accolades, and his closest friend, although less accomplished, is smarter than he is. I go head-to-head with them pretty frequently. One thing that I have learned from knowing them is that, the further up you go in any of the arts or sciences, the more specialized the area of study gets. A lot of highly experienced and extremely educated heart surgeons are actually startlingly ignorant about the brain, for instance, and even a few brain surgeons who could use review on the workings of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. In fact, a GP really has to be more knowledgeable than people in such narrow specializations and is often more broadly knowledgeable. When you start pursuing a high level of education in one area, you have to accept that you only have lay understanding outside of fields related to your area of study.

The sciences work somewhat differently from pure mathematics. This is an important point.

Isn't that obvious, IT WORK!! !
We are doing things that have been long thought impossible; like using flying machines and using machines with incredible power of calculation that hold in a pocket. All thanks to science. We aslo been on the moon, even though lack of budget mean we didn't came back since long.
It's also thanks to science that half of peoples do not die before reaching 18, thanks to science and it's alliance with medicine. We can see proof of that in romantic literature when they talk about sickly children and peoples worrying they won't reach adult years with they're tendency to be sick. Never before in the history of humanity have we seen such life expectency as now.

If I had known that people had such strong emotional attachment to the subject and would take things so personally I might not have said that. In any case I didn't necessarily mean people on here, but people in general. And yes I agree that a lot of times people who scold others for not being open-minded are the most closed-minded of all, or so it seems a lot of times at least. That is a philosophical subject that I have been thinking quite a lot about. And I'm not God, I'm just trying to discuss my views that appear to differ from a lot of people's views on a particular subject. I just got back from work and have still not read the entire thread, not sure if I will but maybe, just saw that quote.

I see that you're posting your résumés here. Just for your info I'm probably the biggest loser of anyone here.

It used to bother me when I was working on my masters and then in the business world that so many people have little or no interest outside of their one area of specialty. For example, a brilliant solid state physicist who had no interest whatsoever in fusion research. The only opinion I ever heard him say about it was that he preferred to work on problems that might actually be solved in his lifetime. Sadly, he passed away at a rather young age.

We had an electrical engineer from a top level university who was completely uninterested in anything in physics that didn't immediately impact electrical engineering. Sure, he knew the basic facts for the courses he took, but he really didn't care about them.

I knew a lot of people with PhD's in math. A few of them were truly interested in just about everything. They
were some of the quirkiest and by far the more interesting. For example, one day I was in an office used by a NASA group (I never did figure out exactly what they actually did in that office) when a math professor I knew stopped by and gave us an impromptu lecture on the mathematics of vision.

Ah, but I'm sure I got you beat in that department! I've got a Bachelors in history, but I live in genteel poverty as an unpublished writer with my wife and child.

Don't feel bad, as I NEVER LEARNED ANYTHING RELEVANT TO REAL SUCCESS IN human life from school or work.

I learned more from my feral cat and pain, AND GOD THAN school or work COULD EVER EVER TEACH, as far as I know now. :)

BUT YEAH, that's simply because we as humans are EVOLVED FOR INSTINCT AND INTUITION.

MOST of standard IQ is mental 'masturbation' as compared to the INNATE AND INSTINCTUAL Physical Human Intelligence that drives HUMAN EMOTIONAL REGULATION AND SENSORY INTEGRATION THAT MAKES HUMAN BEING TRULY TICK WELL in just basic animal balance, if no thing else.

THAT'S WHY I know I KNOW NOTHING PER STANDARD IQ measures of 130 or 140 or whatever as THAT NEVER GOT ME ANYWHERE REAL IN LIFE. :)

There are dimensions of intelligence in this TRUE LIFE OF HUMAN POTENTIAL that LITTLE human tests WILL LIKELY NEVER MEASURE WELL, AS THESE INTELLIGENCES ARE BEYOND 'STANDARD IQ' collective intelligence and or words to that effect and AFFECT AS SUCH. :)

BUT again it is results in ACTION THAT COUNT, NOT EMPTY SHELLS OF WORDS OR NUMBERS, BUT 2, I for one, can find the Universe in any letter or number, as that too, is one of those 'other' types of human dimensional Intelligence. :)

Well, the thing is that we see science fulfilling allot the promises of religion. It could bring about our ultimate doom in the form of nuclear winter if not respected. It has given us wings with which to fly. It has given us weapons with which to fight death. It guards us against disease. It helps the lame to walk and the blind to see. When people claim, "our prayers were answered," it is usually science that gave the answer. It has taken us up into the heavens, and perhaps someday it will take us to the stars.

Those of us who understand it realize that the very nature of scientific advancement is the methodical questioning and reexamination of old ideas.

The source of frustration for many people who believe they are "questioning" is that they assume the questioner is above question. Nope. You are in the pit with the lions and are expected to roar like one and to take the same punishment.

Conspiracy theories. That explains a lot.


I'll stick with whatever *works best* thank you very much, and that is the scientific method. You might think that is "worshipping" but that just in your head *choosing what works best to gain knowledge is not woshipping* heck! you look like you might not even understand the epistemology.