why such huge veneration of science?

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I agree.

It's extremely hard to escape it, when one has to be part of it, and conform with it, just for subsistence.

I did not want to move up in the so-called ladder of materialistic success but was forced into it, as the outsourcing of humans to technology and my ability to navigate technology made me a commodity suited for what the MACHINE OF CULTURE, IN MY NICHE in government service needed me to do, or nothing was left at all for me to do for subsistence, as the Jobs lower before were GONE, IN MY COMFORT ZONE, where I could ignore the more dangerous aspects of the system of MACHINE THAT IS FOR folks who are only lifeless cogs of it now, as well.

For me, the escape was in disability and illness, and now the Doctors say I am too happy and fearless to be normal in the opposite kind of way, ha! HA!.

AS if it is normal to be anxious and depressed some of the time. :)

No, I am far.. far.. far, from the ones WHO ARE TRULY INSANE.

BUT YAH.. IT TOOK ME TO AGE 53 TO GET IT ALL SORTED OUT!

AND BEST WISHES TO YOU, ON YOUR Journey as well. :)

Functional and structural MRI's, CAT scans, and all other measurements of the human BRAIN cannot yet determine how the connections of the brain work per function OF the metaphor of the wiring of the brain.

A recent large study of higher functioning autistic folks shows that there are no substantial structural OR functional differences in empirical measures, available for these brains.

However, obviously, something is missing, and that something is in the vast currently immeasurable wiring in connections of the brain.

Well, one cannot literally see two pathways in the brain but science now shows that when a social cognition 'pathway' is neglected the empathy connections of the brain wither away and when the mechanical cognition 'pathway' of the brain is neglected it withers away, as well.

When either of these two types of intelligence are used then the other is simply repressed as humans truly are not evolved to multi-task social cognition with mechanical cognition related tasks.

So yeah, a front line supervisor of a McDonalds dealing with numbers and people is a hell of a stressful job, particularly for someone who is not good with numbers or people, either one, in deficit that way.

Interestingly enough, in reading the website of the individual I was speaking to, to get a little more real insight in how he thinks, he thinks the human brain works like a computer, per his own words, and that is far from the truth, per the reality that the brain is still, overall, an emotional working system as whole.

And then there are other types of intelligences that some folks rarely touch, such as proprioception that has now been identified by science as such an important sense for navigating the world that it meets some scientists criteria as a sixth sense.

Yes, there is physical intelligence, existential intelligence, musical intelligence, poetry intelligence, proprioception intelligence, visual intelligence, SEXUAL INTELLIGENCE, smelling intelligence, touch intelligence, auditory intelligence, and oh my GOD I can fill this page up with scores of other types of intelligence that Standard IQ TESTS DO NOT TOUCH.

AND NAH, MRI'S AND CAT SCANS, WHETHER FUNCTIONAL OR STRUCTURAL HAVE NO FRIGGING IDEA OF HOW TO DO ANYTHING BUT MEASURE BASIC HUMAN PHYSIOLOGY IN TERMS OF GROSS STRUCTURE AND GENERAL ACTIVITY ACROSS THE GLOBE THAT IS BRAIN.

BUT YA SEE, THAT GLOBE IS MULTI-DIMENSIONAL AND MYRIAD IN INTELLIGENCES AND FROM WHAT i see, if a percentage measure of that could be empirically designed, I would estimate 1 percent for some folks who have even what is measured as a standard IQ of 140 or more, as Standard IQ only scrapes the edge of FULL POTENTIAL OF ALL HUMAN INTELLIGENCES KNOWN AND UNKNOWN, TO THIS POINT IN HUMAN HISTORY, OR FORGOTTEN AS it were..:)

I do things that make folks head spin wherever I go, as no ruler of measurement holds me back, OR THEM. ;)

AND I Got a little carried away with the CAPS.

Please excuse that, if you will, TEACHER. ;)

As I said earlier, I have been thinking a lot about the subject of emotion and emotional attachment lately. I think that a lot of times emotional attachment is something very subtle and something oneself is totally unaware of most of the time. I also think that emotional attachment does not necessarily mean one will respond in an arrogant way or in what appears to be emotional, in fact I think it's possible to be the sweetest most humble loving person and be friendly to all and still have emotional attachment. It's open for inquiry what would occur if you were to keep pushing such a person though. A lot of priests, politicians, psychiatrists and others are more or less psychopaths. In vipassana meditation you practice detachment from emotion. There are all the sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, there is the ritual of sucking the baby's penis in Jewish circumcision. And most policies that Jews push seem to have a common theme. Feminism for example, I think has the secondary effect of alienation, which is closely linked to, if not synonymous with, emotional detachment. It's interesting though how it seems like emotional detachment regarding some things seems to go hand in hand with emotional attachment regarding other things. It seems like for example extreme paranoia and sensitivity, which in one sense is overload of emotional attachment, can have some kind of shadow effect or catapult effect, where hating everything is, although it is emotional, what detaches you from everything. You are repelled more and more into your own black hole until the point where you cease to care about anything, and then you have nothing to lose, and something changes in the mind. I think it is fascinating to what extent this seems to have parallels to some mind control techniques where you break down the subject completely, and then can re-engineer the mind. Even though this has been done on individuals, it seems like something that might be taking place for masses of people as well. 1984 comes to mind where O'Brien tortures Winston, which I think is an allegory.

In case you haven't watched this video I recommend it:



I think the experiment he performs with the audience is interesting. He asks them to think of a movie. Then he asks them to observe their minds and reflect upon the process that takes place. Why did they chose that particular movie. This is how subtle emotional attachment is.

It wasn't meant on a personal level although it's the bold bits that gave the impression.
Come to think of it OCD is not necessarily a pleasurable experience I suppose...
Haven't got the time to think this one out proper as I really need to go clothes shopping with DD (how mundane )

More intelligent than what?

Not intelligent enough to do the maths obviously.
As for the shrink.. suppose it was his way of not having to admit he didn't have a clue about eye anatomy or wave particle duality.
The problem with science is that it's too compartmentalized. Why would quantum rules not permeate our being? Why would they only apply to the physical universe?

I really need to get ready for shopping...

Obviously? Unless I’ve missed something in this thread, the only one who said that is you. I doubt math is really beyond nearly as many people as they themselves believe it is. You may think it’s boring, or that it’s too removed from the “real” world to be worth studying, but that’s a different matter. Pretty much anyone can study what happens if you choose some rules and then follow them consistently, no matter where they lead to, if only they really want to.

In everyday life, these heuristics about when to stop investigating something are probably good for survival, or they wouldn’t be there, but they don’t work so well for science. By rejecting math, you reject the natural language of science and give up an essential tool to understand the Universe in depth. In fact, it’s hard to explain the difference to someone without teaching them math in the process. It’s not so much that science is “compartmentalized” as it is that what has been discovered so far applying the scientific method is a much clearly defined and organized set of ideas than the vague picture one usually gets when math and precise language are avoided.

The first thing that should be clear is the definition and scope of science itself. The only things science can study are those in what you call “the physical universe”. “Our being” is a fuzzy and extremely complex entity, and, while, as far as we know, it’s made of particles and energy that follow the basic laws of nature, the amount of computations needed to predict from these laws how it works is amazingly huge and completely beyond our ability for the time being. Philosophical musings about our being can, of course, draw inspiration from the laws of science just like they can from anything else, but, unless you state precisely what the laws mean in this new realm and make predictions which can be falsified by experiment, they’re not science.

The more I learn about those kinds of things that I have written about, mind control and such, the more meaningless I feel that interaction with people is. It's like you're totally alone, other people are just empty holographic projections running a script, robots, and you might as well not give a damn about their feelings since interaction with them is not much different from pushing buttons on a robot. At some point people appear to be not fellow souls but just some form of landscape of information that you walk all over and climb on, much like dirt under the tires of a car. When I was scorned recently I said I frequently encounter such behavior and I see it as a good sign because trailblazers have to chop through a lot of shrubbery. That's how I feel a lot of times, other people are nothing but shrubbery to chop through. I have also compared it to water around Noah's ark. The ironic thing is that if people scorn you about that attitude you can view that as just yet another case of the water splashing around the ark, yet another bush to chop down. And even more ironic is that when people begin to present various philosophical or psychiatric theories and talk about confirmation bias you can add that too to the same list. Another interesting thing is that the further you progress into psychosis the less you care, much like a space rocket going into space, where there's a huge resistance to get off the ground but the further up through the atmosphere you rise the less resistance there is. And then you look at it all from above and see that that place they all thought was flat in fact was a sphere.

I agree. You must have a lot of awareness and metacognition.
I think that the separation you describe in our society is due to recursive algorithms within memetics.
I also think that this process has to do with entropy, and that it's a sign of physical law trying to catch up to the world of ideas.

I think that most of society tries to emulate psychopaths and psychopathic behaviors, but I'm not sure about this being consciously engineered in an organized way by people.

I hope that makes sense. I did leave a lot out.

That is an interesting subject that I have been thinking about. Is it planned or is it force of nature, or both? When you think about that video I posted about free will, and how people's minds are manipulated by greater minds, you can wonder what is to be regarded as planning and what is to be regarded as organic. A psychiatrist for example might have a greater picture and understanding than a lot of people. But the average psychiatrist is influenced by the authors of the books he has read, by his professors at university, by higher psychiatrists that decide what to write in the diagnostic manuals, by law makers or lobbyists from the pharmaceutical industry etc. His mind is also a product of the input. And similarly with newspaper editors, bankers, book publishers, you name it. It's all some form of interconnected web of minds. So who is a puppet and who is a puppeteer?

I do not take anything that any philosophy OR SCIENCE teaches, AT face value, as ultimate truth.

To do so I think can be a potentially grave mistake, AND FOR ME, AT least, IT COULD HAVE LITERALLY BEEN JUST THAT IF I BELIEVED THE DOCTOR WHEN HE SAID I HAD NO CHANCE for recovery from 19 documented medical disorders, as total on record.

So I always continue to evolve this way, AS I ALSO DO NOT TAKE MY CURRENT TRUTH, AT FACE VALUE, AS ULTIMATE TRUTH.

I think the biggest mistake of the ZEN way is to suggest that EGO, emotion, including desire is a goal to escape.

To escape HUMAN nature is the greatest insanity I know.

And to do this is to lie at core of truth, in my opinion.

To be the i of I, is to know inherently that one can direct, produce and act i's play in I way.

i is the source of ego, emotion including desire and all of human reason THAT IS REAL.

I IS THE HUMAN CONSTRUCT THAT i makes.

And perhaps 'I' sound a little grandeurISH in making a suggestion that I know more than the SAGES AND SAGE SOURCES OF THE TAO, SOCRATES, CONFUCIUS, BUDDHA, JESUS, MUHAMMAD, AND OTHERS, BUT I HAVE A SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE that IS not their advantage, and THAT MY friend is modern collective intelligence that is now the body of knowledge that is science AND Google; AND a LITERATE reading speed, per my natural GOD given Hyperlexic form of autism that is 10 to 15 times faster than the average human being, along with a technological digital device of typewriter that allows me to go up to 130 words a minute when highly focused as such, AND COMMUNICATE WITH MOST ANYONE ANYWHERE ON THIS GLOBE AND SHARE INFORMATION IN FREEDOM'S 'EAGLE WAY'.

SHOULDN'T WE ALL BE GOD BY NOW.

And that's just a metaphor friend, as I see myself as no greater than a grain of sand that I see do see NOW crystal clearly as GOD TOO. ;)

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO, AS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS GOD'S GREATEST WAY YET, for human being fully potentially evolved as such, in both innate and cultural environmental ways THAT ARE ALL PART OF GOD2 THAT IS ALL THAT IS AKA MOTHER NATURE TRUE!..:)

The subconscious has the ability to organize information and perform complex computations at lightning speed, which is why we can learn to do complex tasks like riding a bicycle without having to consciously think about it. I think that by far, most of what the brain does is in the subconscious where it is out of our sight.
I think the subconscious is where the evolution of memetics happens, and that this evolution has produced an emergent intelligence that I refer to as the hive-mind, - something different than Jung's collective conscious.
I think it is completely out of our control.

That web of minds, or perhaps tree structure is a better analogy or term, sounds a lot like what is mentioned here:

http://youtu.be/6bCJOscgCc0?t=5m15s

This makes me think about some other things that I have been thinking about. Here in Sweden there's something called the Royal Order of the Seraphim.



As it says, seraphim are an order of angels:



A related subject is apotheosis.



In the United States Capitol Building in Washington D.C. is the painting called The Apotheosis of Washington:





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apotheosis_of_Washington

I don't know what, if anything, any of it means, but I like to research this kind of stuff.

It does seem to be a train running amok, the engineer having fallen asleep, a lot of times to me. The military industrial complex comes to mind. But is the military industrial complex really running amok or is there somebody pushing buttons, turning levers? And if that is the case, who are they influenced by?

Here's a music EP entitled Mind Heist. The pictures and track titles tell me it was meant to be associated with this kind of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB4EC54DB837EFA10

I agree with this, but only to the extent that some of us can work better with IT than against IT.

Some folks work really hard wittingly or unwittingly to chain the SUBconscious powers of the mind through a false sense of free will that is actually potentially harming them, in both now and the longest run of life.

And culture through the mastery of some over more, choose to propagate OPPRESSION, REPRESSION, AND SUBJUGATION through illusory fears OF THIS POWER OF HUMAN SUBCONSCIOUS FREEDOM, as weaker humans are much easier to master and control.

The metaphor of Let it go and go freely with the flow, per the movie Frozen is pure literal and metaphorical genius.

THIS POWER GOES FAR BEYOND verbal thinking alone.

One can feel one's subconscious being and work with it, with mastery of relative free will.

And yes, ANY HUMAN FEELING THAT MOTIVATES ACTION LIKE THIS CAN BE DESCRIBED AS HUMAN EMOTION, AND TO REPRESS EMOTION LIKE THIS, IS TO BECOME POTENTIALLY WEAKER.

IT IS much easier to say this, than to truly explain it where it sinks to core of potential human being understanding per feeling it instead of thinking it with words alone.

People have to 'see' it not just with sensory organs or words, they have to feel it in some way and master it for relative free will.

And those are the paths that each person must find in their own unique way IN JOURNEY of diverse experience of the Universe they 'see', as real.

All others truly can provide is sparks of inspiration along the way, as these SPARKS do literally equate to energy AND FORCE in metaphor fashion as well as REAL.

Well, I'm happy that you feel that way. Personally though I wouldn't grieve to leave humanity and the planet behind.