OK at reading eyes but fail at body language- AS trait?

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Hello, I just did the "reading the mind in the eyes" test (Cohen et al), and am very suprised with my results. The test itself measures how well you can identify emotions using peoples eyes. It consists of pictures of the eyes of people experiencing certain emotions coupled with 4 choices of emotion per picture. I am not lazy but despite my best efforts I am still crap at interpreting body language and facial expressions in everyday life. The results I've got on online emotional intelligence/ body language interpretation tests have been so bad I don't even want to list them here. In this test I scored 23, which isn't great but is within the realms of what's considered normal (22-30). Could the ability to identify an emotion when presented with a small but expressive part of the face but not the entire face/body be an indication of some kind of ASD? I'm hoping to talk to my doctor to try to get an assessment and am wondering whether this observation is worth mentioning.

Is understanding body language like understanding eye rolling?

Now I'm seriously beggining to wonder if I'm just misdiagnosed.

It's understanding how someones gestures and facial expressions correlate with their feelings and the ability to express appropriate expressions and behaviours yourself to let others know how you're feeling (or hiding your emotions if you don't). Dunno about your diagnosis- according to my immediate family, the AQ test and every other online autism related test out there, I've very obviously got some form of ASD, but 3 seperate psychs have seen me to discuss the matter and none thought I warrented an assessment. The first and third obviously had no clue about high functioning autism but the second worked in the medical practice of a science centred university that's absolutely heaving with ASD types. I'm only seeking assessment now because I've exhausted every other option and it's the only one that makes sense to my parents. Plus, despite my academic achievents I'm approaching 30 and have never had a long term relationship, and every attempt I've made so far to live independantly has been a disaster. Aaargh, sorry to rant.

I feel like the eyes in the commonly referenced "reading the eyes" test slightly unrealistic. They are all faces of professional actors where the lighting and makeup are specifically designed to convey a certain mood. In real life people's eyes are rarely that dramatic/expressive and one has to rely more on other cues.

I also have a theory that most of the social difficulties stemming from problems "reading" people, Theory of Mind, etc. that exist in autism have to do with focus rather than ability. Our brains don't unconsciously prioritize the same information that an NT brain does. The thoughts, emotions, and mental states of others are not placed at the forefront in our perception of the world.

E.S.
Doing well on the test when looking at pictures and not being involved in the real-time interaction, may only be an indication of having the capacity to perform the task given enough time and without the stress of the interaction. The task is made much easier by focusing on a single aspect and not having to take in the subtleties of the multiple clues spread across the entire body.

But would it be useful to providing this information to a doctor doing an assessment? Maybe..... depending on the doctor. Some doctors assume that if you are providing a lot of information that you are trying too hard for a particular diagnosis, or you just end up confusing them. Other doctors want all the information that they can get. You might want to tell the doctor that you have multiple items of information that you can offer but you understand that some of them may be entirely irrelevant and others useful and then see how much of it he/she wants to hear. At least that way it shows that you are putting her/him in control of the process and are not trying to "do a snow job". However if you have several points, you might want to make a few notes so that you can go through them quickly, for him/her. In that case you might want to organize your notes so that those that you think are most important are given first.

Marshall is right.
It is a static test and it does not take into account the real life dynamism that we struggle with.
Many ASD people can learn to read static photographic images conveying staged and carefully lit emotions.

Where we really struggle is in real life, where multi-channeled sensory communication exchange is required and where we cannot keep up and get overwhelmed.
May ASD can process interactions with people a day or two later. We sift through all the information that an NT person can absorb and comprehend simultaneously and we reach belated conclusions that are our of synch with the pace of the real world.

Both excellent observations and IMO dead-on accurate.

We Aspies are the kings and queens of "Dammit! What I should have said/done, was..."

This could be why I like cartoons and a lot of humor in high doses that would sicken or overwhelm others, and why I used to watch a lot of television and play a lot of video games. Exaggerated, staged emotion can be easily understood, and you're not required to display anything in return. From these one can gather the feelings and insights that are difficult to get in the "real world".

Exaggerated body language of seduction!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtGWVoLGAA8[/youtube]

Thanks for the replies!

Marshall, I think you've an extremely good point about focus. A lot of my problems stem from constantly losing focus when I'm trying to concentrate on something that doesn't interest me or processing several sources of information at once (i.e. looking someone in the face, interacting with them and following or later remembering what they are saying). I find there's a bit more to it than just focus though, as I have a strong tendency to over or under react to strong emotions. When I was a kid this led to frequent bouts of hyperactive and/or disruptive behaviour including rage and agression. Sometimes I had exhausting crying/screaming fits because I was so overwhelmed by the emotions induced by a situation that I couldn't stop crying/screaming. This lessened considerably when I went through puberty and has become a lot easier to manage in adulthood. I try to avoid situations likely to trigger strong emotions and leave those that trigger them unexpectedly. I still very occasionally get crying fits but can usually avoid having these in front of people.

Outlander, thanks for the advice. I've made the mistake of presenting too much information to a doctor before. I know I'm easily distracted in conversation so I had everything written down when I went to see the first two psychiatrists I've spoken to about this. The first one refused to read it and gave me a row when I tried to refer to it and get the topic of conversation away from my early family life, which was all he wanted to hear about. The second one took it but didn't look at it or want to discuss it. I don't know what my chances are this time- the GP is my parents regular GP and is excellent- she picked up two misdiagnosed physical conditions that had been crippling my dad for years and got him to some of the best specialists in the country. What she's like for mental problems I don't know. I've no doubt she'll refer me to a psychiatrist, but it's a small rural practice so it's unlikely they'll know much about ASDs. I'll take some notes with me and see.

sgrannel, thanks for the vid, it's been years since I've seen that one!

Yes, I know how the NT's feel when they use their body language.

Yep! Been There - Done That ! That's how I happened to think to mention it. I tend to get overly verbose in explaining things, that is how I learned to just make a list of notes, Just a few key thoughts on each point. Make two such lists in case the doctor is the kind who will read it. The other list is for you to hang on to, just so you can make sure that you have hit all the points with the Doc. before the office visit is over.

I had a doc like that. They are hard to find though! Their key attributes are:
-- an ability to listen to the the patient
and
-- a broad based knowledge of what problems produce what symptoms
and if you are really lucky
-- a desire to take the time to look into things after the office visit.
It means they are a good diagnostician, and if the matter is one that can be cured or helped, a proper diagnosis is critical

The key here is to start the office visit with a statement like: "This may be out of your area and I may need a referral, but it will have to be to someone who specializes in what I think is the problem or who is a good diagnostician in that and related things". Then go on to BREIFLY explain why you think the previous two doctor's were barking up the wrong tree. That first one that wanted to focus on your early family life obviously had tunnel vision for his favorite diagnosis. The second one apparantly did not want to listen to you and probably assumed that since you had "mental problems" you weren't competent to say anything meaningful about your problems. Sounds like they were both losers.

If you can be referred to someone who really knows AS and understands aspies, You should be more able to get an accurate diagnosis wether it is AS or not, and also whether or not the diagnosis is complicated by possible related or unrelated problems.

I thought those were all great answers and I just wanted to add some things. Another post on this eye test was put up and the majority scored around the same as you, as well as myself. Also, a brand new study I was reading about, says that young children with autism actually don't have as much trouble with reading facial expressions as everyone previously thought. Not to try to tell anyone on this website their struggles are invalid, it's just something I read here. I don't know many studies they did, or how controlled the enviroment was. That being said, I think Marshall made a very exellent point.

Outlander, Thanks a million for the advice, I'll follow it to the letter. Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's great to hear from someone who's had similar problems with medics.

ntorch, I've seen similar things. The basis of the tilt test, for example, is that autistic babies do not give human faces the same priority for attention as neurotypical ones, so they stop looking at the face of the person holding them when they're tilted backwards. Of course this may not be true for all autistics as the underlying cause of the autism will vary from case to case.