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jackbus01
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17 Nov 2011, 2:29 pm

pandabear wrote:
But, getting back to the topic: When I was a government employee, they gave us some writing classes where the emphasis was on writing in a simple, understandable manner, and avoiding the passive voice.

When writing in passive voice, it is easy to obscure things. For example, you might write "Tommy was hit with a ball." The writer might or might know know who hit Tommy with a ball, and might or might not be trying to protect someone. People who read material that comes from the government don't want to be left guessing. It is a lot clearer if you switch to active voice. "Billy hit Tommy with a ball."


Yes, but sometimes the intent is to shift the blame for things. "Tommy was hit with a ball" and "Billy hit Tommy with a ball" have different meanings.
Billy might object to the second sentence whereas the first is more factual. Yes, active voice is clearer, but there is a lot more liability there.



iamnotaparakeet
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17 Nov 2011, 4:54 pm

jackbus01 wrote:
pandabear wrote:
But, getting back to the topic: When I was a government employee, they gave us some writing classes where the emphasis was on writing in a simple, understandable manner, and avoiding the passive voice.

When writing in passive voice, it is easy to obscure things. For example, you might write "Tommy was hit with a ball." The writer might or might know know who hit Tommy with a ball, and might or might not be trying to protect someone. People who read material that comes from the government don't want to be left guessing. It is a lot clearer if you switch to active voice. "Billy hit Tommy with a ball."


Yes, but sometimes the intent is to shift the blame for things. "Tommy was hit with a ball" and "Billy hit Tommy with a ball" have different meanings.
Billy might object to the second sentence whereas the first is more factual. Yes, active voice is clearer, but there is a lot more liability there.


As I had already mentioned, the passive voice need not to be nebulous. The same meaning in, "Billy hit Tommy with a ball", can be conveyed equivalently in the passive voice like so: "Tommy was hit with a ball by Billy." In fact, as I had said previously, the active voice equivalent of the unnecessarily nebulous passive voice statement, "Tommy was hit with a ball", is not, "Billy hit Tommy with a ball", but instead, "A ball hit Tommy".



Rocky
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18 Nov 2011, 6:07 pm

The OP was wondering why people suggest other ways of saying things. The reason will vary by the individual, but usually, it is because that person has experienced dissonance. When I encounter a deviation from standard English grammar, I experience something similar to hearing a factual error in the communication.

At that point, I can ignore it, or point it out. Those who point it out may do so to show off, or to be helpful to the person who made the error. They may also be attempting the quixotic task of keeping language usage in general, standardized. In other words, those "errors" in usage could be passed on to the readers who do not recognize the errors.

What I do to minimize dissonance, is to assume the writer is using less formal standards for forum posts than he would use for his resume.



Abgal64
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18 Nov 2011, 7:56 pm

These links should be of interest to this discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidance_speech
(Being that I myself study Sumerian and can read and write quite well in the language|Baremeĝir mumduzuea u emet gamutamšitasareduga), I suggest that this be taken a look at:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/45691958/Whit ... and-Emesal


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