Original Sin
shrox wrote:
If all are directly descended from Adam and Eve, they why aren't we all Jewish? There appears to be an actual gene associated with being "ethnically" Jewish.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
Too bad we dont have an emoticon for a dope slap!
Earth to Shrox
Adam and Eve PREDATED Abraham!
A+E 's children went out and "founded many nations".
It wasnt until two thousand years after A+E that Abraham founded the Jewish lineage.
BTW, he also founded the Arab line as well. The Jews through his wife, and the Arabs through his slave mistress.
naturalplastic wrote:
shrox wrote:
If all are directly descended from Adam and Eve, they why aren't we all Jewish? There appears to be an actual gene associated with being "ethnically" Jewish.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
Earth to Shrox
Adam and Eve PREDATED Abraham!
A+E 's children went out and "founded many nations".
It wasnt until thousand years after A+E that Abraham founded the Jewish lineage.
BTW, he also founded the Arab line as well. The Jews through his wife, and the Arabs through his slave mistress.
According to Rabinic tradition Hagar (who was Sarah's servant) was properly married to Abraham.
ruveyn
ruveyn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
shrox wrote:
If all are directly descended from Adam and Eve, they why aren't we all Jewish? There appears to be an actual gene associated with being "ethnically" Jewish.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
Earth to Shrox
Adam and Eve PREDATED Abraham!
A+E 's children went out and "founded many nations".
It wasnt until thousand years after A+E that Abraham founded the Jewish lineage.
BTW, he also founded the Arab line as well. The Jews through his wife, and the Arabs through his slave mistress.
According to Rabinic tradition Hagar (who was Sarah's servant) was properly married to Abraham.
ruveyn
And the three of them together also founded the Jerry Springer Show!
naturalplastic wrote:
shrox wrote:
If all are directly descended from Adam and Eve, they why aren't we all Jewish? There appears to be an actual gene associated with being "ethnically" Jewish.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
Too bad we dont have an emoticon for a dope slap!
Earth to Shrox
Adam and Eve PREDATED Abraham!
A+E 's children went out and "founded many nations".
It wasnt until two thousand years after A+E that Abraham founded the Jewish lineage.
BTW, he also founded the Arab line as well. The Jews through his wife, and the Arabs through his slave mistress.
OK, doh! on that one.
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
ruveyn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
shrox wrote:
If all are directly descended from Adam and Eve, they why aren't we all Jewish? There appears to be an actual gene associated with being "ethnically" Jewish.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html
Earth to Shrox
Adam and Eve PREDATED Abraham!
A+E 's children went out and "founded many nations".
It wasnt until thousand years after A+E that Abraham founded the Jewish lineage.
BTW, he also founded the Arab line as well. The Jews through his wife, and the Arabs through his slave mistress.
According to Rabinic tradition Hagar (who was Sarah's servant) was properly married to Abraham.
ruveyn
Abraham didn't wait for the women God wanted him to be with and because he didn't wait that is what gave birth to the arab lineage Abrahams first son ismael would go on to start the religion Islam.
shrox wrote:
Niniel wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Christians who are ignorant of evolution believe that everyone descended from Adam and Eve. However, the question believers always ignore is where did those other women come from that Cane / Abel hitched up with?
Adam and Eve had more children, and Cain and Abel mated with their sisters. We all come from incest, according to the bible that is.
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
If you take any stock in Jubilees
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/4.htm
Jubilees 4:9 wrote:
And Cain took Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee.
Jubilees 4:11 wrote:
And in the fifth week of the fifth jubilee, Seth took Azûrâ his sister to be his wife, and in the fourth (year of the sixth week) she bare him Enos.
Adam and Eve's sons were marrying their sisters.
ArrantPariah wrote:
shrox wrote:
Niniel wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Christians who are ignorant of evolution believe that everyone descended from Adam and Eve. However, the question believers always ignore is where did those other women come from that Cane / Abel hitched up with?
Adam and Eve had more children, and Cain and Abel mated with their sisters. We all come from incest, according to the bible that is.
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
If you take any stock in Jubilees
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/4.htm
Jubilees 4:9 wrote:
And Cain took Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee.
Jubilees 4:11 wrote:
And in the fifth week of the fifth jubilee, Seth took Azûrâ his sister to be his wife, and in the fourth (year of the sixth week) she bare him Enos.
Adam and Eve's sons were marrying their sisters.
Yuck!
naturalplastic wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
shrox wrote:
Niniel wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Christians who are ignorant of evolution believe that everyone descended from Adam and Eve. However, the question believers always ignore is where did those other women come from that Cane / Abel hitched up with?
Adam and Eve had more children, and Cain and Abel mated with their sisters. We all come from incest, according to the bible that is.
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
If you take any stock in Jubilees
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/4.htm
Jubilees 4:9 wrote:
And Cain took Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee.
Jubilees 4:11 wrote:
And in the fifth week of the fifth jubilee, Seth took Azûrâ his sister to be his wife, and in the fourth (year of the sixth week) she bare him Enos.
Adam and Eve's sons were marrying their sisters.
Yuck!
I think is hot.
shrox wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
Where Is that in scripture?
Nowhere.
It was made up out of whole cloth.
ruveyn
It's a more logical explanation than "incest was OK for while..."
"Murder wasn't "OK for while", theft was not "OK for a while", lying was not "OK for a while".
You would have to have any scriptural reference interpreted (a formal theological interpretation) in the way that supports your idea or any literature reference to support it, otherwise you would be just making s**t up to get around the idea of incest.
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
Where Is that in scripture?
Nowhere.
It was made up out of whole cloth.
ruveyn
It's a more logical explanation than "incest was OK for while..."
"Murder wasn't "OK for while", theft was not "OK for a while", lying was not "OK for a while".
You would have to have any scriptural reference interpreted (a formal theological interpretation) in the way that supports your idea or any literature reference to support it, otherwise you would be just making sh** up to get around the idea of incest.
Not really, I am trying to fit the unchanging holiness of God into the premise, that's all.
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Cash__ wrote:
No, I don't believe in original sin. Belief in original sin presupposes I believe in the whole adam and eve story and that all humanity descended from them, which I don't.
Well thats the real question.
How can you be a christian, and not be a science rejecting fundie?
If you go along with all this newfangled Darwin stuff then presumably you wouldnt be able to believe in the litereal account of genisis- and the two lovers and the talking snake.
But if you loose adam and eve you loose original sin. And as I understand it - Original SIn is the keystone to the edifice of christianity.
So how do all of you non fundie christians square that?
How do you embrace 'the modern synthesis" in science, and stay Christian?
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
naturalplastic wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
No, I don't believe in original sin. Belief in original sin presupposes I believe in the whole adam and eve story and that all humanity descended from them, which I don't.
Well thats the real question.
How can you be a christian, and not be a science rejecting fundie?
If you go along with all this newfangled Darwin stuff then presumably you wouldnt be able to believe in the litereal account of genisis- and the two lovers and the talking snake.
But if you loose adam and eve you loose original sin. And as I understand it - Original SIn is the keystone to the edifice of christianity.
So how do all of you non fundie christians square that?
How do you embrace 'the modern synthesis" in science, and stay Christian?
I am a christian but I am not a science rejecting fundie because I dislike fundies oh so very much.
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
Where Is that in scripture?
Nowhere.
It was made up out of whole cloth.
ruveyn
It's a more logical explanation than "incest was OK for while..."
"Murder wasn't "OK for while", theft was not "OK for a while", lying was not "OK for a while".
You would have to have any scriptural reference interpreted (a formal theological interpretation) in the way that supports your idea or any literature reference to support it, otherwise you would be just making sh** up to get around the idea of incest.
The problem is not Shrox's theology.
It is his history.
If you're claiming that God changed his mind at some point - and declared incest to be a new sin when it wasnt a sin before- then that is a radical interpretation. And you would have the burden of proof for that -not someone questioning that assertion.
The problem is not his theology, but his history.
Hes claiming that both Darwin and the Fundies are correct.
The earth is five billion years old, humans branched off trom the apes a few million years ago, and then.. six thousand years ago two young lovers fell in with a talking snake- and messed it all up for us despite the fact that planet already had millions of humans of every race living in every continent outside of this garden place who couldnt have been effected by adam and eve and were already living lives of travail and mortality for a long time ( ie we were already being punished even before the sin).
Doesnt make sense.
naturalplastic wrote:
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
shrox wrote:
No there was no incest.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
The Garden was a divinely created area on an existing, evolved Earth. Adam and Eve were perfect humans (skin color an non-issue), their children married evolved men and women.
Where Is that in scripture?
Nowhere.
It was made up out of whole cloth.
ruveyn
It's a more logical explanation than "incest was OK for while..."
"Murder wasn't "OK for while", theft was not "OK for a while", lying was not "OK for a while".
You would have to have any scriptural reference interpreted (a formal theological interpretation) in the way that supports your idea or any literature reference to support it, otherwise you would be just making sh** up to get around the idea of incest.
The problem is not Shrox's theology.
It is his history.
If you're claiming that God changed his mind at some point - and declared incest to be a new sin when it wasnt a sin before- then that is a radical interpretation. And you would have the burden of proof for that -not someone questioning that assertion.
The problem is not his theology, but his history.
Hes claiming that both Darwin and the Fundies are correct.
The earth is five billion years old, humans branched off trom the apes a few million years ago, and then.. six thousand years ago two young lovers fell in with a talking snake- and messed it all up for us despite the fact that planet already had millions of humans of every race living in every continent outside of this garden place who couldnt have been effected by adam and eve and were already living lives of travail and mortality for a long time ( ie we were already being punished even before the sin).
Doesnt make sense.
I wouldn't say I am claiming Darwin to "be correct", (other than in specialization and adaptation, he's generally right though) rather I am saying the idea of God's morality changing is incorrect. For the fundies to be correct, since no one knows how long Adam and Eve remained in the garden. And this is just my speculation about it all.
And I forgot the flood too.