Questions of a curious Aspie: LBGT questions

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Caesaran
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05 Jan 2013, 1:04 am

1. Would a lesbian woman be considered hetero if she engaged relations with pseudo hermaphrodite transsexual (a woman with a lingam) who identifies as female?
2. Why do some 'transgendered' people seek to reassign themselves even at the cost of their fertility (personally I say be happy with what god gave you, at least he didn't forget to give u brains. (that poor child))
3. Do some bisexuals believe that is okay to have a digamous relationship (love triangle or like being in a relationship with both genders say like having a boyfriend and gf at the same time)?
4. How many aspies ID themselves as pansexual (I gotta to hand it to any pansexual aspie, I would just love to see the world through ur eyes for five minutes. Props to any pansexual aspie)?



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05 Jan 2013, 1:25 am

Caesaran wrote:
1. Would a lesbian woman be considered hetero if she engaged relations with pseudo hermaphrodite transsexual (a woman with a lingam) who identifies as female?
2. Why do some 'transgendered' people seek to reassign themselves even at the cost of their fertility (personally I say be happy with what god gave you, at least he didn't forget to give u brains. (that poor child))
3. Do some bisexuals believe that is okay to have a digamous relationship (love triangle or like being in a relationship with both genders say like having a boyfriend and gf at the same time)?
4. How many aspies ID themselves as pansexual (I gotta to hand it to any pansexual aspie, I would just love to see the world through ur eyes for five minutes. Props to any pansexual aspie)?


1. No she would not.

2. Please do not put quotes around transgendered if you're not going to put them around any other identity, it's rather demeaning. Because, simply put, having male/female gentiles makes us want to die. Because it feels wrong. Completely. Utterly. Wrong. Also, some people just don't want to have kids, so that's not eve an issue.

3. Sure some bisexual people are polyamorous and engage in open/three-way relationships, in much the same way that some straight/gay/pansexual/demi-sexual/asexual people do. But I do not think it is the average bisexual experience.

4. I don't think there have been any reliable studies into the prevalence of pansexuals on the autistic spectrum.



meems
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05 Jan 2013, 2:06 am

FalsettoTesla wrote:
Caesaran wrote:
1. Would a lesbian woman be considered hetero if she engaged relations with pseudo hermaphrodite transsexual (a woman with a lingam) who identifies as female?
2. Why do some 'transgendered' people seek to reassign themselves even at the cost of their fertility (personally I say be happy with what god gave you, at least he didn't forget to give u brains. (that poor child))
3. Do some bisexuals believe that is okay to have a digamous relationship (love triangle or like being in a relationship with both genders say like having a boyfriend and gf at the same time)?
4. How many aspies ID themselves as pansexual (I gotta to hand it to any pansexual aspie, I would just love to see the world through ur eyes for five minutes. Props to any pansexual aspie)?


1. No she would not.

2. Please do not put quotes around transgendered if you're not going to put them around any other identity, it's rather demeaning. Because, simply put, having male/female gentiles makes us want to die. Because it feels wrong. Completely. Utterly. Wrong. Also, some people just don't want to have kids, so that's not eve an issue.

3. Sure some bisexual people are polyamorous and engage in open/three-way relationships, in much the same way that some straight/gay/pansexual/demi-sexual/asexual people do. But I do not think it is the average bisexual experience.

4. I don't think there have been any reliable studies into the prevalence of pansexuals on the autistic spectrum.



These are better than the answers I would've managed to convey to words. I second this post.


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Rorberyllium
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05 Jan 2013, 11:28 am

I wish people would stop using the word "hermaphrodite" when talking about trans or intersex people. It's both insensitive and scientifically incorrect.



FalsettoTesla
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05 Jan 2013, 1:58 pm

Rorberyllium wrote:
I wish people would stop using the word "hermaphrodite" when talking about trans or intersex people. It's both insensitive and scientifically incorrect.


Yep. I also wish people would stop thinking it's the job of marginalised groups to educate the majority.

Yes, I'm trans*, queer, etc., no I am not your goddamn walking reference book.

I can't speak for any other people, but my gender dysphoria is a very private thing for me, it's not a thing I feel comfortable talking about openly. My transition, completely public kind of by default. They way my body makes me feel, how I relate to it etc. etc., that's nobody's business but my own.



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05 Jan 2013, 2:38 pm

FalsettoTesla wrote:

Yep. I also wish people would stop thinking it's the job of marginalised groups to educate the majority.

Yes, I'm trans*, queer, etc., no I am not your goddamn walking reference book.



I don't mind answering questions, as I am quite knowledgeable about these subjects, but I have a certain threshold when it comes to personal things that I'm willing to disclose. At this point I pretty much ignore anything that's just blatantly ignorant for ignorance's sake.



Caesaran
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07 Jan 2013, 3:03 pm

Rorberyllium wrote:
I wish people would stop using the word "hermaphrodite" when talking about trans or intersex people. It's both insensitive and scientifically incorrect.


I said Pseudo Hermaphrodite, It would be considered the scientific synonym of saying biologically transgendered. A true hermaphrodite has both gender's reproductive structures. a Pseudo hermaphrodite possesses the opposite gender's genitalia or mimics the other genders functions. Best example of a pseudo hermaphrodite would be a spotted hyena (Females of the species have a giant appendage that serves multiple purposes. Nature's transsexual). Be sure to not skim through on your reading when proper terminology is provided.

Not to be crude or rude, but I kind of find the concept of transgenderism a bit scientifically humorous: The gender template for all of humanity is female so the idea of a male brain in a female body would suggest they got stuck with the defualt anatomical settings as well as the fact that brains do not possess a set template for gender because it is our interpretation of society's gender roles that deem our mental state including our upbringing. I have a particular question: Would a female child that is given toys that are oriented for boys would consider herself male later in life as well as vice versa for a male child?

Does me wanting children later in my life and obtaining a career that involves very little mathematical work to secure their futures as well as supportive partner make me a woman in a man's body, Answer is No. I have asperger's syndrome so my brain is more androgynous and lacks the sexual dimorphism so my mindset could be considered both genders mentally.

To be honest, Not everyone likes their body themselves especially some hypersensitive aspies cause they could feel overwhelmed all the time by every sensation.
So what if you do not like your Lingam/Yoni, Its only there for your own satisfaction and reproductive purposes; Basically, Have fun with it while it still works properly and be happy. Hell, if your aspie obsessed with building machines, build a machine that "makes you happy".

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15607 ... OspBW8n1nE



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07 Jan 2013, 9:25 pm

I wish we could collaborate on a FAQ thread about queer stuff and have it stickied to avoid certain types of threads which might be insensitive, or a general sort of question thread where we could just answer questions as they come up. Or at least some kind of guidelines for what is insensitive.

Or something to that effect


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08 Jan 2013, 1:40 am

If you compile one, then the mods will sticky it for you. I admit it would be a lot of work.


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08 Jan 2013, 4:06 pm

Caesaran wrote:
I said Pseudo Hermaphrodite, It would be considered the scientific synonym of saying biologically transgendered.


Considered by whom? I have never seen such a statement in any medical literature.

Quote:
A true hermaphrodite has both gender's reproductive structures. a Pseudo hermaphrodite possesses the opposite gender's genitalia or mimics the other genders functions. Best example of a pseudo hermaphrodite would be a spotted hyena (Females of the species have a giant appendage that serves multiple purposes. Nature's transsexual). Be sure to not skim through on your reading when proper terminology is provided.


You might do well to take your own advice. Neither of your definitions is accurate.

True hermaphroditism in humans is determined exclusively by the presence of both ovarian and testicular tissue. No other genital structures are required for a diagnosis of true hermaphroditism. As for pseduohermaphroditism, the term is widely held to be obsolete, but where it is used, the diagnostic criterion is a phenotype that is inconsistent with gonadal tissue. So, a person with testes who lacks a penis is a pseudohermaphrodite. Spotted hyenas are not, in my view, pseudohermaphrodites, because the external appendage on the female is not ambiguous--anatomically it is a uniquely female genital organ.

Quote:
Not to be crude or rude, but I kind of find the concept of transgenderism a bit scientifically humorous: The gender template for all of humanity is female so the idea of a male brain in a female body would suggest they got stuck with the defualt anatomical settings as well as the fact that brains do not possess a set template for gender because it is our interpretation of society's gender roles that deem our mental state including our upbringing. I have a particular question: Would a female child that is given toys that are oriented for boys would consider herself male later in life as well as vice versa for a male child?


Why do you suppose that the words, "not to be crude or rude," excuses your subsequent rudeness? If you have a reasonable expectation that what you are going to say is going to offend someone, then surely the proper course is either to attempt to find some other way to say what needs to be said, or to apologize for rudeness. To attempt to diminish or dismiss rudeness is, I suggest, to compound it.

The medical literature appears to me to demonstrate some very clear anatomical differences in the brains of transgendered people born male from typical people born male. The studies are still few, but they appear to run counter to your assumption that our brains do not possess a template for gender.

It is important not to confuse gender identity with social sex roles. A transgendered woman may fulfil male social sex roles while at the same time identifying as female.

Quote:
Does me wanting children later in my life and obtaining a career that involves very little mathematical work to secure their futures as well as supportive partner make me a woman in a man's body, Answer is No. I have asperger's syndrome so my brain is more androgynous and lacks the sexual dimorphism so my mindset could be considered both genders mentally.


Of course it doesn't. And that's not the experience of any transgendered person that I know of, either personally, or through clinical reading. There are certainly transgendered women who came to understand their sexual identity through a desire to fulfil a female social sex role; but neither causes the other.

As for Asperger's syndrome, that is absolutely irrelevant to any issue of gender identity or anatomical aspect of sexual dimorphism. You may well be more androgynous, but that is something that is true about you in addition to your ASD, not as a result of it.

Quote:
To be honest, Not everyone likes their body themselves especially some hypersensitive aspies cause they could feel overwhelmed all the time by every sensation.
So what if you do not like your Lingam/Yoni, Its only there for your own satisfaction and reproductive purposes; Basically, Have fun with it while it still works properly and be happy. Hell, if your aspie obsessed with building machines, build a machine that "makes you happy".

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15607 ... OspBW8n1nE


That is, perhaps, the most offensive thing that you have posted.

Gender dysphoria is not a matter of "not liking" one's body. The suggestion that people with gender dysphoria should "just be happy," is a truly dangerous notion. There may be people who are capable of coping with their gender dysphoria without resorting to aggressive or surgical therapies, but that is not the case for all transgendered people, and it is certainly not a responsible starting point for creating a therapeutic plan.


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Caesaran
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08 Jan 2013, 8:29 pm

I am sorry if I offended you.

I am hoping to become a psychologist and I have a tendency view certain concepts from a Freudian approach which transgenderism is one of those concepts that tend to pose the question in my mind "What would sigmund freud say about (insert topic here)"

My thoughts on what freud would say about transgenderism would be:

"These individuals who seek to become the opposite sex from their assigned gender, Seem to be envious of the opposite gender's role in society and fashioning the thought of themselves fitting that role without flaw or that role being easier than their gender's role in society but due to their gender, they would be shunned for attempting to fufill that role in a community. Culture is their opposition in their desires in fufilling the opposite sex's social roles; unfortunately, This causes confusion for the individual's identity in denying it's current physical form which can lead to certain irrational behaviors that could be self destructive." -Sigmund freud

My personal thoughts on a psychological perspective of transgenderism

"What purpose in a tribal structure do transgendered individuals fufill? Homosexuals fufill the purpose of Nannies, Babysitters, and adoptive parents for orphaned children; Homosexuality often helps prevent populations from rising any further than needed so it is required of a civilization to be accepting of these individuals' sexual preferences. Aspergians fufill the role of advisors, Spiritual leaders, Shamans, Pioneers, and Craftsmen for their tribe's own progress in order to recover from a substantial loss; These individuals are born during times of famine and drought so their innate cleverness as well as peculiar thinking help spawn new methods of sustaining the community at their own social costs. What purpose do these transgendered individuals fufill: Are they suppose to fufill the role of caregivers when they is a lack of them, Are they suppose to fufill the role of men and women when the population of either has decreased significantly? Their purpose is unknown..." -Caesaran



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08 Jan 2013, 8:46 pm

Caesaran wrote:
I am sorry if I offended you.

I am hoping to become a psychologist and I have a tendency view certain concepts from a Freudian approach which transgenderism is one of those concepts that tend to pose the question in my mind "What would sigmund freud say about (insert topic here)"


Freud was a sexist bastard. Most things he had to say in regards to sex or gender are very outdated compared to modern standards of psychology.



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08 Jan 2013, 10:00 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Caesaran wrote:
I said Pseudo Hermaphrodite, It would be considered the scientific synonym of saying biologically transgendered.


Considered by whom? I have never seen such a statement in any medical literature.

Quote:
A true hermaphrodite has both gender's reproductive structures. a Pseudo hermaphrodite possesses the opposite gender's genitalia or mimics the other genders functions. Best example of a pseudo hermaphrodite would be a spotted hyena (Females of the species have a giant appendage that serves multiple purposes. Nature's transsexual). Be sure to not skim through on your reading when proper terminology is provided.


You might do well to take your own advice. Neither of your definitions is accurate.

True hermaphroditism in humans is determined exclusively by the presence of both ovarian and testicular tissue. No other genital structures are required for a diagnosis of true hermaphroditism. As for pseduohermaphroditism, the term is widely held to be obsolete, but where it is used, the diagnostic criterion is a phenotype that is inconsistent with gonadal tissue. So, a person with testes who lacks a penis is a pseudohermaphrodite. Spotted hyenas are not, in my view, pseudohermaphrodites, because the external appendage on the female is not ambiguous--anatomically it is a uniquely female genital organ.

Quote:
Not to be crude or rude, but I kind of find the concept of transgenderism a bit scientifically humorous: The gender template for all of humanity is female so the idea of a male brain in a female body would suggest they got stuck with the defualt anatomical settings as well as the fact that brains do not possess a set template for gender because it is our interpretation of society's gender roles that deem our mental state including our upbringing. I have a particular question: Would a female child that is given toys that are oriented for boys would consider herself male later in life as well as vice versa for a male child?


Why do you suppose that the words, "not to be crude or rude," excuses your subsequent rudeness? If you have a reasonable expectation that what you are going to say is going to offend someone, then surely the proper course is either to attempt to find some other way to say what needs to be said, or to apologize for rudeness. To attempt to diminish or dismiss rudeness is, I suggest, to compound it.

The medical literature appears to me to demonstrate some very clear anatomical differences in the brains of transgendered people born male from typical people born male. The studies are still few, but they appear to run counter to your assumption that our brains do not possess a template for gender.

It is important not to confuse gender identity with social sex roles. A transgendered woman may fulfil male social sex roles while at the same time identifying as female.

Quote:
Does me wanting children later in my life and obtaining a career that involves very little mathematical work to secure their futures as well as supportive partner make me a woman in a man's body, Answer is No. I have asperger's syndrome so my brain is more androgynous and lacks the sexual dimorphism so my mindset could be considered both genders mentally.


Of course it doesn't. And that's not the experience of any transgendered person that I know of, either personally, or through clinical reading. There are certainly transgendered women who came to understand their sexual identity through a desire to fulfil a female social sex role; but neither causes the other.

As for Asperger's syndrome, that is absolutely irrelevant to any issue of gender identity or anatomical aspect of sexual dimorphism. You may well be more androgynous, but that is something that is true about you in addition to your ASD, not as a result of it.

Quote:
To be honest, Not everyone likes their body themselves especially some hypersensitive aspies cause they could feel overwhelmed all the time by every sensation.
So what if you do not like your Lingam/Yoni, Its only there for your own satisfaction and reproductive purposes; Basically, Have fun with it while it still works properly and be happy. Hell, if your aspie obsessed with building machines, build a machine that "makes you happy".

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15607 ... OspBW8n1nE


That is, perhaps, the most offensive thing that you have posted.

Gender dysphoria is not a matter of "not liking" one's body. The suggestion that people with gender dysphoria should "just be happy," is a truly dangerous notion. There may be people who are capable of coping with their gender dysphoria without resorting to aggressive or surgical therapies, but that is not the case for all transgendered people, and it is certainly not a responsible starting point for creating a therapeutic plan.



Thank you for having such grace and great erudition, you're seriously a vital part of these conversations, from my perspective. It's good to have someone who cares enough to be a voice for those of us who can't convey our thoughts to words nearly as elegantly as you do in every post I've seen from you.

I'm certain I'm not the only one who is grateful for this. :)


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meems
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08 Jan 2013, 10:03 pm

Rorberyllium wrote:
Caesaran wrote:
I am sorry if I offended you.

I am hoping to become a psychologist and I have a tendency view certain concepts from a Freudian approach which transgenderism is one of those concepts that tend to pose the question in my mind "What would sigmund freud say about (insert topic here)"


Freud was a sexist bastard. Most things he had to say in regards to sex or gender are very outdated compared to modern standards of psychology.


Yeah, and speaking of pseudo... I'm not knowledgeable of psychology beyond what little independent study I've done... but aren't we leaps and bounds ahead of some of Freud's theories due to advancements in neuroscience?


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Caesaran
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09 Jan 2013, 2:17 am

meems wrote:
Rorberyllium wrote:
Caesaran wrote:
I am sorry if I offended you.

I am hoping to become a psychologist and I have a tendency view certain concepts from a Freudian approach which transgenderism is one of those concepts that tend to pose the question in my mind "What would sigmund freud say about (insert topic here)"


Freud was a sexist bastard. Most things he had to say in regards to sex or gender are very outdated compared to modern standards of psychology.


Yeah, and speaking of pseudo... I'm not knowledgeable of psychology beyond what little independent study I've done... but aren't we leaps and bounds ahead of some of Freud's theories due to advancements in neuroscience?


Freud is the founder of modern Psychoanalysis and I conjured up what he might say this day and age or at least back then if transgenderism was a topic. He wasn't sexist, Freud always made theories before fully testing them but he always returned to correct them; Truthfully, Yes his theories are outdated but if you look at things from his kind of perspective, Freud would see some unsatisfied subconcious desire that attempts to manifest itself thusforth causing distress and confusion in the individual. :roll:

This is why I provided my psychological perspective on the topic, The entire question of it: what purpose does transgenderism fufill in tribal structure?