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Schneekugel
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10 Jun 2013, 6:00 am

namaste wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:

What does backanswer mean?

when i shout at him he retaliates and backanswers
abusing me


People dont get educated by telling, but by showing them. You show him its ok, to shout at other people, so its normal that he does that as well.

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All he hears is the yelling so that could be why over the years why he never listened to my mother because he couldn't hear a word she said because she was yelling. His mind just doesn't process when he is being screamed at. So when he was sixteen or fifteen, he told our mother "I don't like being yelled at, when you yell at me, I have a harder time listening and all I hear is yelling, not the words." So what my mother did then was sweet talked him. I could never tell anymore when she was mad and I was surprised how she could actually control her emotions because I sure can't. Just imagine having a child who is unable to listen when yelled at and you having difficulty controlling your feelings and your tone of voice. It would go around in circles and cause problems between the child and parent because of their own inabilities.


You dont have to surpress your feelings. Its the opposite, that screaming and yelling is hiding your feeling, that surpresses them. Screaming and yelling is just simply screaming and yelling, but it doesnt help anything telling the other person about the causes why you are screaming and yelling, so it helps you nothing. When you instead think about, why you have the need to scream and yell, only then you can tell the person, what is bothering you. "Uarghaaaaruahrrrrg...." is no help. "I felt disappointed, because your behavement seemed, as if you would not care for us, and because I like you on my side very much the feeling that you do not care for us, made me very sad and disappointed and also angry." helps to understand the situation.



ASDMommyASDKid
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10 Jun 2013, 9:58 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
... The more stress my son is under from environmental factors, the more he grabs at control. That was especially true at age 9. I learned to see it as a sign that something was wrong somewhere else in his life, that a need wasn't met. It was his instinctive response to a world that confused him, to try and take control. The best way to break it was to redirect him into a self-calming activity.


^^^^^^
This!

We have had a ton of "non-compliance" issues, and the bad ones have all been when my son was in a stressful place or coming off a very stressful day.

When things are calm, he is much better about complying, and the non-compliance he does exhibit makes total logical sense. The school does not believe I do not have problems at home like they have with him at school as they assume it is always that way, b/c they do not understand the sources of stress. It all seems fine to them, and for an NT it would not be stressful.

Nameste, do you think your son is under a large amount of stress? Do the "bad" behaviors seem to correlate to stress?



Ettina
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10 Jun 2013, 10:01 am

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Children with ODD feel like they are drowning when they are being told what to do or what not to do so they will fight it when they are told and when they are threatened with a consequence, they feel the need to fight it more to get control. That is what I have read about it.


Actually, there are multiple reasons for ODD behavior. What you describe there is present in some ODD kids, but there are other pathways to ODD behavior as well.

Here are some:

Chronic irritability - this can be a mood disorder, often seen as a variant of depression. Obviously, if a kid is chronically irritable, pretty much everything will annoy them, and this will show up in their behavior as ODD-style behavior.

Hypersensitivity to threat - some ODD kids have a bias to assuming the worst intentions of others. If someone accidentally bumps into them, they assume it was a deliberate attempt to pick on them. So they retaliate, which comes out of the blue to other people because to them it seems obvious that it was an accident. Often this results from experiencing real hostility in another situation, such as from a parent or from bullying or so forth.

Complicated ADHD - sometimes an ADHD kid who has not gotten proper accommodations and support will get sick of trying and failing to behave well, and instead will decide to be deliberately badly behaved. This is one of the big reasons why ADHD and ODD often go together. (Another reason is that they can both be caused by the same underlying issue in some cases.

Lack of emotional empathy - in a few ODD kids, the basic problem is psychopathic tendencies. These kids don't care about the feelings of others, and so they do what they want. They will often resist control because it means doing what someone else wants instead of what they want. Many psychopaths also have anger issues because they lack some of the usual restraints on anger. However, this seems unlikely for the OP because he starts crying when he's caught stealing.

Call for help - this is when a kid is emotionally distressed, but for some reason doesn't feel able to express it directly. So instead he misbehaves, hoping someone will figure out why he's doing it and help him.



momsparky
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10 Jun 2013, 10:04 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
... The more stress my son is under from environmental factors, the more he grabs at control. That was especially true at age 9. I learned to see it as a sign that something was wrong somewhere else in his life, that a need wasn't met. It was his instinctive response to a world that confused him, to try and take control. The best way to break it was to redirect him into a self-calming activity.


^^^^^^
This!

We have had a ton of "non-compliance" issues, and the bad ones have all been when my son was in a stressful place or coming off a very stressful day.

When things are calm, he is much better about complying, and the non-compliance he does exhibit makes total logical sense. The school does not believe I do not have problems at home like they have with him at school as they assume it is always that way, b/c they do not understand the sources of stress. It all seems fine to them, and for an NT it would not be stressful.

Nameste, do you think your son is under a large amount of stress? Do the "bad" behaviors seem to correlate to stress?


I also agree, and I would add this: if my son doesn't understand the rules, if they seem arbitrary to him (for instance: adults can eat candy whenever they want, why can't he eat candy whenever he wants) he simply doesn't follow them. We struggle with him stealing (his own) candy sometimes.

We spend a lot of time explaining the rules. For instance, for years we struggled to get my son to do chores around the house. I finally sat him down and explained that when he lives on his own, he will need to do all these things all by himself, and chores give him the opportunity to practice. I also pointed out that we live together and since we all share the benefits of a (relatively) smooth running household, we all have to share in the work.

Sometimes, I have to point out exactly what this means by going "on strike" - I don't do any chores until he does. When he realizes that dinner isn't going to get onto the table by itself, he usually remembers our earlier discussions about sharing in the work.



DW_a_mom
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10 Jun 2013, 10:48 am

League Girl, I felt (and feel) like my point was entirely different from yours, another possible angle. There are multiple reasons a child might become controlling, and it is important to consider all of them, and not jump to a specific conclusion simply because control is on the checklist for condition B.

I was pointing out a different common reason children can be controlling.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).