Ask youself why you really want a CURE?

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LupaLuna
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07 Aug 2013, 1:26 pm

What if the tables where flipped? What if everyone was born with AS and 1 in 100 was born NT. What do you think all those NT people would want? A cure?. I can imagine all those (Now minority) NT people saying. "I wish there was a cure for NT. All I want to do is party, talk to other people. I mean. It like I need to be in a noisy room with lots of people around. How can those AS people stand to be in those quiet rooms working on there project for hours on end abd talk to each other like robots( if they ever talk.) I mean being NT. I just lack the intellectual discipline those AS people have.". Just thought I'd put it in a different perspective.

The moral of this story is. You only want a cure because you are a minority and you want to "fit in". There is nothing wrong with you. You're not broken, You're not defective, You're not sick, You're just different. Wanting a cure is nothing more then a women wanting to wear make-up.



babybird
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07 Aug 2013, 1:40 pm

I don't really think it's right of you to judge why anyone would want a cure.

I would like a cure for myself and I wouldn't judge anyone who doesn't want a cure because I don't know their reasons.

I take medication that helps alleviate symptoms of other conditions. Is that wrong too?

If someone offered me a pill tomorrow and told me I would be NT for the rest of my life and it was a once in a life time offer, I would definitely take it. I've got nothing, therefore I would see that I would have nothing to lose.

Also your argument is weak because the majority of society is NT and a cure for any condition is nothing at all like women wearing make-up.


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qawer
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07 Aug 2013, 1:55 pm

LupaLuna wrote:
What if the tables where flipped? What if everyone was born with AS and 1 in 100 was born NT. What do you think all those NT people would want? A cure?. I can imagine all those (Now minority) NT people saying. "I wish there was a cure for NT. All I want to do is party, talk to other people. I mean. It like I need to be in a noisy room with lots of people around. How can those AS people stand to be in those quiet rooms working on there project for hours on end abd talk to each other like robots( if they ever talk.) I mean being NT. I just lack the intellectual discipline those AS people have.". Just thought I'd put it in a different perspective.

The moral of this story is. You only want a cure because you are a minority and you want to "fit in". There is nothing wrong with you. You're not broken, You're not defective, You're not sick, You're just different. Wanting a cure is nothing more then a women wanting to wear make-up.


Thanks, I liked reading those words. We should worship who we are instead of believing we have a disorder.

I don't think those of us with Aspergers would have any problem communicating and socializing in that case - if you have ever met an aspie you know how easy and natural it is.



LupaLuna
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07 Aug 2013, 1:56 pm

babybird wrote:
I don't really think it's right of you to judge why anyone would want a cure.

I would like a cure for myself and I wouldn't judge anyone who doesn't want a cure because I don't know their reasons.

I take medication that helps alleviate symptoms of other conditions. Is that wrong too?

If someone offered me a pill tomorrow and told me I would be NT for the rest of my life and it was a once in a life time offer, I would definitely take it. I've got nothing, therefore I would see that I would have nothing to lose.

Also your argument is weak because the majority of society is NT and a cure for any condition is nothing at all like women wearing make-up.


I am sorry I offended you but I am not trying to be judgmental about anything. I am just trying to put the subject of a cure in a different perspective. Please note the word "really" in the title of the tpoic. I did not say "Ask yourself do you want a CURE?".



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07 Aug 2013, 2:13 pm

You haven't offended me, I don't take offence so easily. But I just don't understand why some people have a problem with others who are on the spectrum with hoping for a cure.

I don't feel as though I'm 'selling out' for hoping for a cure. In fact I feel better for finally admitting to myself that I do have something that has hindered my life for so long. The diagnosis for me was devastating because they couldn't make it go away.

AS doesn't make me happy or proud. AS is and always will be an obstacle. I might sometimes overcome small things but I will always be knocked back by the condition when it comes to the big things in life.


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nominalist
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07 Aug 2013, 2:14 pm

Soon after my original diagnosis was corrected, I became a part of the anti-cure movement. I later concluded that I had made a mistake. Now, I would like to see the problematic aspects of Autism (lack of empathy, etc.) cured. If the problems cannot be separated from the more positive aspects of Autism (intense focus), then I would favor curing the whole disorder.


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LupaLuna
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07 Aug 2013, 2:43 pm

nominalist wrote:
Soon after my original diagnosis was corrected, I became a part of the anti-cure movement. I later concluded that I had made a mistake. Now, I would like to see the problematic aspects of Autism (lack of empathy, etc.) cured. If the problems cannot be separated from the more positive aspects of Autism (intense focus), then I would favor curing the whole disorder.


When it come to empathy. Is it a problem of not actually feeling empathy or is it a problem of not being able to express it to others?



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07 Aug 2013, 2:53 pm

A cure would probably be less of a drain on resources than years of counselling, therapy, psychiatric help and people being treated for attempted suicide. All these things are negative aspects of the condition.

Why use up valuable time, money and resources teaching somebody how to feel and express an emotion when just a little pill or a simple tweak might just do the trick.


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OnPorpoise
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07 Aug 2013, 3:36 pm

There is a cure, but it's not simple and it's not a little pill or a magic formula.

It's learning to adapt. It's learning and observing and training to fit in a little better. And hopefully (in my opinion) without giving up too much of what makes you yourself. It's possible to do that without years of expensive counseling, depending on how you fall on the spectrum. There are many who need a lot of help, many who need less. But it is very hard work for everyone who tries.

I'm in a group with aspies who are around my age and I've been to functions where there are younger aspies (under 40). There is a difference. Partly due, maybe to older aspies not being diagnosed until they were older and having to adapt or else suffer more. Younger aspies seem, again to me, to have more "rough edges," be more out in their aspieness and more likely to come across as different. Older aspies still have problems, but they've had time to develop more coping methods. And maybe we just don't give as much of a rat's a$$ what people think of us anymore.

It's like being short. Maybe you'd like to take a grow pill or have surgery to make your legs longer. But generally you have to adapt to things being out of reach and find ways of working within a world geared for people over five feet while trying to accept that it isn't fair.


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07 Aug 2013, 3:49 pm

I don't actually believe all the people who say they would not change it if they had the chance.

Learning to adapt is not a cure.


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nominalist
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07 Aug 2013, 3:56 pm

LupaLuna wrote:
When it come to empathy. Is it a problem of not actually feeling empathy or is it a problem of not being able to express it to others?


I can only speak for myself. When I discovered empathy, through devotional meditation, a few years ago, I realized that I had never experienced empathy in my life. I was confusing empathy with sympathy.


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07 Aug 2013, 4:24 pm

nominalist wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
When it come to empathy. Is it a problem of not actually feeling empathy or is it a problem of not being able to express it to others?


I can only speak for myself. When I discovered empathy, through devotional meditation, a few years ago, I realized that I had never experienced empathy in my life. I was confusing empathy with sympathy.


Empathy is still a strange subject though because what is truly empathy and what is behavior that is taught by your upbringing/environment (offering someone a drink when they are thirsty or a hug when they are sad etc. ).

I once had the chance to beat up a high school bully, I had him cornered and that was the moment I saw the fear in his eyes, which caused me to being unable to proceed, and I walked away, now is that sympathy or empathy?

Empathy is said to register trough mirror neurons which cause a "how would I feel in that situation" reaction, and I think that this feeling could be so intense that we sometimes rather experience it as a shock like state, which almost paralyzes you and stops you from reacting, rather than not at all experiencing empathy.

That's just from my personal experience and some of the people with autism I know and of course this can be different for others.



Last edited by Jonov on 07 Aug 2013, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Willard
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07 Aug 2013, 4:27 pm

You really should consider this:

Everything that has shaped your personality from the day you were born has been affected by the way in which you perceive the world.

Your personal perception of the world and every event that has ever occurred in your life is shaped and colored by your Autistic neurology.

Without your personal neurological wiring, your personality would have developed entirely differently. YOU would be a different YOU. Completely different in virtually every way.

A cure would mean waking up one morning and seeing an utterly different reality than what you have known all your life. It would feel like The Twilight Zone - the people you know would appear to be behaving differently, YOU would behave differently, in ways you couldn't explain or understand - your friends and loved ones would suddenly find themselves dealing with a person they did not know and had never encountered before, living in your body. You would find yourself with abilities you never had before, but no experience in how to use them. Your own behaviors would feel even more awkward and unfamiliar than ever before. You might get used to it over time, but one thing you could never undo - You could never be the old familiar YOU again. Whether you loved the new reality or hated it, you would be stuck with it.

I'm reminded of an old Bill Cosby joke, in which someone is telling him how wonderful cocaine is because "it enhances your personality," and Cosby replies:
"Yeah, but what if you're an @$$hole?"

Do you really want to become a completely different person, not knowing who that person may turn out to be?

Then take the red pill. :twisted:

Personally, I'd pass. :?



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07 Aug 2013, 4:29 pm

Willard wrote:
You really should consider this:

Everything that has shaped your personality from the day you were born has been affected by the way in which you perceive the world.

Your personal perception of the world and every event that has ever occurred in your life is shaped and colored by your Autistic neurology.

Without your personal neurological wiring, your personality would have developed entirely differently. YOU would be a different YOU. Completely different in virtually every way.

A cure would mean waking up one morning and seeing an utterly different reality than what you have known all your life. It would feel like The Twilight Zone - the people you know would appear to be behaving differently, YOU would behave differently, in ways you couldn't explain or understand - your friends and loved ones would suddenly find themselves dealing with a person they did not know and had never encountered before, living in your body. You would find yourself with abilities you never had before, but no experience in how to use them. Your own behaviors would feel even more awkward and unfamiliar than ever before. You might get used to it over time, but one thing you could never undo - You could never be the old familiar YOU again. Whether you loved the new reality or hated it, you would be stuck with it.

I'm reminded of an old Bill Cosby joke, in which someone is telling him how wonderful cocaine is because "it enhances your personality," and Cosby replies:
"Yeah, but what if you're an @$$hole?"

Do you really want to become a completely different person, not knowing who that person may turn out to be?

Then take the red pill. :twisted:

Personally, I'd pass. :?


I just like to stay in the matrix in that case :P



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07 Aug 2013, 4:33 pm

Jonov wrote:
I once had the chance to beat up a high school bully, I had him cornered and that was the moment I saw the fear in his eyes, which caused me to being unable to proceed, and I walked away, now is that sympathy or empathy?


As I said, I can only speak for myself. I always had a strong sense of social justice. However, over the years, I taught myself to "look" like I cared about individuals. Actually, I couldn't care less.

Jonov wrote:
Empathy is said to register trough mirror neurons which cause a "how would I feel in that situation" reaction, and I think that this feeling could be so intense that we sometimes rather experience it as a shock like state, which almost paralyzes you and stops you from reacting, rather than not at all experiencing empathy.


I think that is sympathy (a rational exploration of "how would I feel?"). To me, empathy is feeling it.


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07 Aug 2013, 5:03 pm

I don't think I would want a cure. I have a strange illness in my legs and it affects my life WAY more than AS. As a matter of fact, sometimes I get really scared even though it won't kill me. I would much rather have a cure for for that than for AS. I'm fine with having AS.