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Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 10:30 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the republicans had a century to put up or shut up [regarding health care reform] and they failed to do ANYTHING* within that time.

*Nixon of all people proposed a reasonable health care reform plan which was with malice aforethought shot down postehaste by his own party. so much for republicans wanting to "replace" obamacare with anything 'cept for the big fat NOTHING which came before.


Actually, one of the cruelest ironies of history was that a major obstacle in Nixon's path universal healthcare was WATERGATE. If he hadn't fallen victim to his own personal demons of paranoia and vindictiveness, he and the other like minded broken individuals he surrounded himself with wouldn't have ordered the Watergate break in. There would not have been a subsequent investigation and threat of impeachment that had occupied his every waking moment, and hounded him to resignation.

so you're saying that if Watergate had not happened, that his party would have gone along with his plan?


That seems to be the case.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



UnLoser
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29 Sep 2013, 10:59 am

RandyG wrote:
Under the ACA a morbidly obese drug addict who visits the hospital every week cannot be charged higher premiums than a healthy person. Healthy people will thus be forced to subsidize care for the sick. Naturally those who expect to "take" more than they "give" will approve of this. A plan which robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.

I don't see what's so wrong about the Gov providing health care subsidies to poor people. From my (admittedly limited and probably biased) understanding, it's cheaper and less of a burden on the system to provide preventative care for people who can't afford it themselves, than to wait for them to become badly sick and then treat them for free (which as I understand it, is how it works currently; hospitals can't turn away someone who's gravely ill). Regardless of the unfairness of subsidizing people who willingly destroy their own health, isn't the ACA way still more affordable than what we were doing before?



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2013, 1:22 pm

UnLoser wrote:
RandyG wrote:
Under the ACA a morbidly obese drug addict who visits the hospital every week cannot be charged higher premiums than a healthy person. Healthy people will thus be forced to subsidize care for the sick. Naturally those who expect to "take" more than they "give" will approve of this. A plan which robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.

I don't see what's so wrong about the Gov providing health care subsidies to poor people. From my (admittedly limited and probably biased) understanding, it's cheaper and less of a burden on the system to provide preventative care for people who can't afford it themselves, than to wait for them to become badly sick and then treat them for free (which as I understand it, is how it works currently; hospitals can't turn away someone who's gravely ill). Regardless of the unfairness of subsidizing people who willingly destroy their own health, isn't the ACA way still more affordable than what we were doing before?

but the people opposed to extending heath care to the poor, if they were to be consistent, would also oppose EMTALA as well.



Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 4:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:
UnLoser wrote:
RandyG wrote:
Under the ACA a morbidly obese drug addict who visits the hospital every week cannot be charged higher premiums than a healthy person. Healthy people will thus be forced to subsidize care for the sick. Naturally those who expect to "take" more than they "give" will approve of this. A plan which robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.

I don't see what's so wrong about the Gov providing health care subsidies to poor people. From my (admittedly limited and probably biased) understanding, it's cheaper and less of a burden on the system to provide preventative care for people who can't afford it themselves, than to wait for them to become badly sick and then treat them for free (which as I understand it, is how it works currently; hospitals can't turn away someone who's gravely ill). Regardless of the unfairness of subsidizing people who willingly destroy their own health, isn't the ACA way still more affordable than what we were doing before?

but the people opposed to extending heath care to the poor, if they were to be consistent, would also oppose EMTALA as well.


I'm sure I'm displaying my ignorance, but what is EMTALA?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



zacb
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29 Sep 2013, 4:58 pm

Was it even legal for the house and senate to pass separate versions of the bill, but be passed as one bill? And as far as preventative medicine, while it still may be an anathema, state fund health programs, outside the hands of the federal government would be a step in the right direction. On another subject, I think in terms of basic care, we should move more towards the Thai model of pay what you can (which I believe was banned, but I could be wrong).



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2013, 5:36 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
what is EMTALA?

Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act of 1985 which effectively outlawed public hospital ERs from dumping the indigent out in the street. but it doesn't stop the wallet biopsy of any working-class [above indigent level] person and being relegated to the end of the queue, often 24 or more hours after the last person has been seen, this happened to me on multiple occasions.



Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 6:05 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
what is EMTALA?

Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act of 1985 which effectively outlawed public hospital ERs from dumping the indigent out in the street. but it doesn't stop the wallet biopsy of any working-class [above indigent level] person and being relegated to the end of the queue, often 24 or more hours after the last person has been seen, this happened to me on multiple occasions.


Thanks. I'm surprised conservatives haven't tried to take that from uninsured people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2013, 6:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
what is EMTALA?

Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act of 1985 which effectively outlawed public hospital ERs from dumping the indigent out in the street. but it doesn't stop the wallet biopsy of any working-class [above indigent level] person and being relegated to the end of the queue, often 24 or more hours after the last person has been seen, this happened to me on multiple occasions.


Thanks. I'm surprised conservatives haven't tried to take that from uninsured people.

not for lack of trying. don't put it past 'em.



Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 6:24 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
what is EMTALA?

Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act of 1985 which effectively outlawed public hospital ERs from dumping the indigent out in the street. but it doesn't stop the wallet biopsy of any working-class [above indigent level] person and being relegated to the end of the queue, often 24 or more hours after the last person has been seen, this happened to me on multiple occasions.


Thanks. I'm surprised conservatives haven't tried to take that from uninsured people.

not for lack of trying. don't put it past 'em.


Tea party gets their way, that will be something their minions in the senate and the house will try to enact. That's another reason why our side has to establish a beach head with Obamacare, otherwise the right will see an opportunity to cut away more and more of the safety net.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2013, 6:47 pm

us likeminded people need to pray, and hard, now.



Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 6:51 pm

auntblabby wrote:
us likeminded people need to pray, and hard, now.


Ah, then we have the one up on the other side, as they believe their own BS that we on the left don't believe in God.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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29 Sep 2013, 7:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
us likeminded people need to pray, and hard, now.


Ah, then we have the one up on the other side, as they believe their own BS that we on the left don't believe in God.

their god is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.



Kraichgauer
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29 Sep 2013, 7:15 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
us likeminded people need to pray, and hard, now.


Ah, then we have the one up on the other side, as they believe their own BS that we on the left don't believe in God.

their god is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.


Very often, that seems to be the truth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LKL
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30 Sep 2013, 12:22 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
what is EMTALA?

Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act of 1985 which effectively outlawed public hospital ERs from dumping the indigent out in the street. but it doesn't stop the wallet biopsy of any working-class [above indigent level] person and being relegated to the end of the queue, often 24 or more hours after the last person has been seen, this happened to me on multiple occasions.

I can't speak for every hospital, but where I worked it was triage, not wallets, that determined who got seen first. A single serious case could take up 6 nurses, 1-2 doctors, and assorted auxiliary staff for several hours at a time (for example, a complicated major trauma; a trauma caused by an MI or a CVA; a person passed out due to DKA, and suffering from exposure/injuries because of it; etc).



Dox47
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30 Sep 2013, 1:08 am

auntblabby wrote:
their god is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.


How about an experiment? You pray really hard, and I'll spend money on lobbyists; whoever's goals get achieved first wins.


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auntblabby
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30 Sep 2013, 1:13 am

for those lacking worldly $$$ talents, prayer is all there is.