My Aspie Fiance

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I'll concede that, in practical terms, calling off an engagement often does lead to a breakup. What I'm addressing is a concern that perhaps this relationship was not a good idea to begin with. I have a suspicion that Angel2 hasn't been in a relationship with her fiancé for very long, and given her circumstances I don't understand the rush to become engaged and make serious plans to be married. Her current situation is unlivable, a fact that is being completely ignored in this thread.

I'd look at calling off the engagement as a means of reevaluating the relationship as a whole. When an engagement is called off, particularly in a situation like this in which the relationship is already in peril (or virtually nonexistent), and the parties are able to objectively reevaluate what they're even doing together, they can look at the reality of their situation and adequately assess that they are incompatible and continuing together does more harm than good. THAT is why people who break off engagements ultimately end the relationship. They had no business being together in the first place, they learned, almost too late, that mistakes were made, and they end up better off without each other.

Now, I'm not telling her that this necessarily applies to HER. I don't think she's an exception to the rule, but I'm open to entertaining the possibility. It's a test. If they can survive breaking off the engagement, they can try again later and turn it into something positive.

She has not considered, as far as any of us can tell, that they just might not be good for each other. I'm open to being wrong. But I've seen this kind of thing numerous times before. I think he's controlling her. I think he's manipulating her. I think he's coercing her. I think it's an extreme situation and, more than anything else, what Angel2 needs to hear from me (if no one else) is that it's OK to walk out. She's putting herself at high personal risk--or at best she's committing to lifelong misery. When I was in a similar situation, I started out with the attitude that I'd rather be dead THAN alone. When I was ready to end the relationship some 5 or 6 years later, my attitude shifted to I'd rather be dead OR alone.

I don't mean to sound like a pessimist. I'm an optimist, a glass-half-full kind of guy. And what keeps me optimistic in THIS situation is that her guy CAN change if he wants to. DOES he want to change? WILL he change? Is that worth waiting for? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm not her, nor am I involved in her relationship. She has to decide that for herself.

Speaking of that "more than logic realm," here is my purely subjective, counts-for-absolutely-nothing feeeeeeeling about what she's doing by staying with this guy: It's suicide in slow motion. It's like I'm hanging out with Andy Warhol at the Factory watching young women destroy themselves. It's horrible. It's like passing by roadkill or a horrific traffic accident. You know you shouldn't look, but you just feel compelled to. Your conscience says "don't slow down, don't look, don't say anything, just keep going," but somehow you just can't. Moth to a flame. Maybe I get some bizarre Freudian gratification out of it, I dunno. But everything about this just screams tragedy of epic proportions. Heck, Biblical proportions. And just like everyone else, I can't seem to turn away from it. But maybe, just maybe the driver on an icy bridge will take his foot off the brake, turn into the skid, and regain control. Maybe, just maybe it's not too late to turn the Titanic around. Maybe there's just enough time to make it to the boat before the volcano blows. Logical or not, all I can do is pray and keep praying, hope and keep hoping. My fascination with disaster is tempered by my equal and opposite disgust for it.

The farming is in an mmorpg (online game), not Farmville style though.

Seeing the statement that I don't accept him for he is, my first reaction was feeling insulted, but I suppose I don't in a way. I don't completely accept how he is because of the anger that he has, to me its completely blown out of proportion at times. Tonight he got angry because a spatula got stuck to the stove or something, he picked it up, threw it into the sink which broke 2 dishes. He went into his room ticked off, I waited a bit then went to him and suggested to him that he should try to look into some websites about self control and he started cursing 'f^&% you B#%%#!', told me to go away so I went into the living room and have been not speaking to him until he decides to calm down because if I cant talk to him there is no point to me accomplishing nothing but making him more upset right now.

The more he curses at me, the more I want to just leave. I really don't want to give up on him....I really don't... I want things to work out that he AT LEAST listens to me and attempts to work on his problems. He knows he has problems, and I KNOW they bother him, he's TOLD me that it does, but it seems like he doesn't want to be bothered with looking at himself in the mirror and saying 'I can change'. He seems to just want others to do the work for him. He gets sad because his daughters don't open up to him, but he never sees that when they do try to he acts like he doesn't want to be bothered. They don't understand how he is at all, they are too young to so they just try to avoid any type of communication with him, asking me to ask him questions that they have.

When he is sweet its such a warm feeling, I feel safe, but when he gets into his insulting and anger filled moods he is intolerable. One thing I absolutely hate is someone cursing at me, I don't curse and try hard not to insult people, but he refuses to even apologize when he knows he hurts me, he just says that its my fault that he curses so stop doing things to make him curse. When I tell him my opinion and he doesn't agree with it he tells me to be quiet, when I just stop talking he gets annoyed that im not giving him any input. There is no winning for me, and there are only so many chances I can give him.

I am kind of glad that there is no date set yet, and he hasn't gotten me a ring yet so I wont feel bad that he bought me something like that if things don't work out. There are so many things I like about him, but the bad stuff is starting to become too much.

Thank you all for continuing to give me your opinions, it really is being helpful because there are varying and good viewpoints in many directions. It helps me 'weigh the pros and cons' so to speak by allowing me to read how things are seen in someone elses eyes.

I wouldn't speak to any woman that way if I was forced to at gunpoint. Fellow guys, yes, but only once or twice upon encountering self-important dolts. In my amateur opinion this sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality or a manifestation of chronic anxiety than anything I've seen often with ASDers. Tell the kids you're happy to help them and either show him what happens if he doesn't learn to chill or walk away.

The things he's said to you are, to be honest, horrible and disrespectful. If he's like this now, imagine if you've been married for years? If you already are unhappy and thinking about leaving, it can only get worse with time.

My mom married a man with anger issues. She became so unhappy, but they had a kid together (my brother), and because of financial reasons she hasn't been able to leave. They almost never talk. He's just "around". And they aren't happier for being together. He's sweet to her sometimes, but only when HE feels like it. It's been terrible for her self esteem.

I'm not say you should get up and walk out RIGHT now. But you MUST stick up for yourself. Tell him his behavior is unacceptable, and if he doesn't do something about it, you won't have a choice but to leave. And if he won't, realize you can't force him to change, either for his good or yours. And if he won't even listen to you on an important issue like this, then he may not be the right man for you. But, it's up to you to decide for yourself, just like its up to him to decide to change his behavior or not.

Also, acting sweet "sometimes" can be a form of manipulation and a sign of an abusive relationship.

5. He will be sweet and caring -- sometimes. He will be the sweet, loving man who everyone else sees, and who you fell in love with. But, sometimes, he will become the man who puts you down, makes you feel guilty, and isolates you. He will make you believe that if you just did something differently, loved him more, or treated him better, he would be that sweet, loving man all the time. You will stay because of your hope for the man you love, but will spend most of your time being controlled by the man who hurts you. Eventually, you won't be able to tell the difference.

That last bit is from a site listing early warning signs of an abusive relationship. It seems like he may display the others as well.

No, just no. Never let him be verbally abusive and then blame you for making him angry. It is still entirely his responsibility to respond to anger in an acceptable way and not be verbally abusive. It is more his responsibility to respond to anger in an acceptable way than it is your responsibility to not make him angry. It's also not acceptable for him to tell you to keep quiet simply because he doesn't agree with you. The concern I'm now having here is that lot's of people who are abusive tend to not take responsibility and then blame the victim. This behaviour is verbally abusive, do not accept blame for him lashing out at you and Aspergers is not an excuse. If he hurts you, even unintentionally, he needs to apologise. In fact most aspies would actually be upset over hurting someone rather than blaming them, whether it was intentional or not.

Now I'm getting worried about you and I'm starting to think that AngelRho might be right about some of the things he said in his previous couple of posts. You've come from a previous abusive relationship and the problem is that if you fall into the cycle of making excuses for such behaviour like this when he blames you for such behaviour instead of himself, whether now or in future relationship, then you could land yourself into another cycle of getting yourself into another abusive relationship. My advice to you is put your foot down instead of making excuses for that behaviour. Make it clear to him that you're not going to accept Aspergers as an excuse for such behaviour. From what you've said, he may have trouble with emotional dysregulation but ultimately that is still his problem and his responsibility. If you want to help him with this problem, then that's fine but understand that he has to want to work on the problem. There's nothing more that you can do if he doesn't want to.



You're welcome.

One more thing. Have you looked at those links I gave you earlier in the thread about anger management taking into account specific things related to Asperger Syndrome as well as Tony Attwood's website? If you still want to help him with his anger problems then I would suggest looking at those and also probably phoning around in your area to see if there's anything similar available in the sense of using cognitive behavioural therapy to treat emotional dysregulation, which includes dysregulation of emotions like anger. Remember though that his anger issues are still his problem and he'll only change if he wants to work on those issues.

Now hold on, Jono…no point in going off the deep end here…

In all seriousness, when you mentioned that he has to want to do those things, you're dead on. I think the one thing we all agree on is that as long as he wants to make these corrections there is hope for this relationship. The apparent manipulation going on here is what worries me the most, which is why I hesitate to suggest that this relationship is fixable. Encouraging someone to try to make this work is tantamount to forcing an alcoholic to drink. So from here on out in this discussion as far as I'm concerned, the possibility that HE can fix their relationship and this thing can be salvaged will be understood. Their behavior together is so self-destructive I can no longer in good conscience use language that suggests she try to make it work.

QFT

Not to be a Debby Downer but if this is how he is before marriage, the last thing you should do is marry him. Marriage is a partnership. It is a two way street. If you already feel you are putting your feelings in a box, that will only last so long. I would strongly suggest counseling if you still want to make a go at the relationship. If he refuses counseling well then, the handwriting is on the wall, as they say. I would rather be straight up and honest with you instead of giving you false hope and bs. Best of luck.

I'm not sure. She came from posting on a forum, supposedly a support forum for partners of aspies, where people tend to advise everyone to break up with an aspie partner, simply for being aspies rather than anything specific wrong with the relationship. She re-posted her thread here, thinking we'd give more objective responses and I tried to help her because her initial description of the problem sounded like standard AS/NT communication issues which I thought we could her with.

I'd like to think that whatever she decides, her thread here on Wrongplanet was more helpful that the one on the other forum but I'm not so sure.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13419.1

I've got an idea, Angel2, could you show your fiancé this thread?

He's going to be a very lonely man if he verbally abuses women for trying to help him.

He definitely needs to work on his anger, problem is bringing it up without offending him. Maybe try to word as you are doing it not because you are trying to change him, but because you are trying to improve his circumstances?

What? Why? So he can beat her half to death or worse? What is it about Angel2 that everyone hates her so much? I don't get it…

Nobody hates her. We're trying to help her. There's no evidence that he's physically violent.

No solid evidence, no. But she did hint at it.

Perhaps I was a little harsh there, so my apologies. Most physical abuse cases start out that way. The verbal abuse can sometimes be the tip of the iceberg. He apparently doesn't let her post to WP enough for us to know any more for sure.

I think she did the right thing posting to two different forums in order to look for a more objective answer. It's like going to a doc for a second opinion. The trouble is that a 2nd opinion can't compel you to believe the 1st one. I wonder if she's doc-shopping until she finds someone to tell her what she wants to hear.

I can always sympathize with someone who wants to make a relationship work. I'm not convinced this relationship is worth salvaging (on her part). What she needs, though not necessarily wants, to hear is she's in a dangerous situation and should get out for the sake of her own well-being.

Listen to me. The reason why I suggested what I did was because of my interpretation that he's getting defensive over perceived criticism. It was my thinking that maybe if he saw how she felt and that she was trying to help him rather than criticise him, then he'd realise how his behaviour affects those around him and try to work on and change it. I would suggest anything that I thought would put her in danger.

Also, forget about that other forum, it's mostly an aspie hate forum and nothing much else. The only information they usually need to hear is whether or not you're in a relationship with someone with Asperger Syndrome. They're not objective at all. At least here, we don't have a general agenda about staying or leaving.