Elliot Rogers, The Killer and The Manifesto

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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2015, 10:19 am

These days, in certain circles, "playdates" are arranged for children's social occasions, unlike in the old days, when kids just made friends on their own. It's usually for "safety reasons."



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22 Feb 2015, 8:43 pm

Ummm...I don't have that many specific memories of my childhood. But if I wanted to, I could write a 200 page story about it, in great detail. Some of the things would be things I actually remembered and then embellished, and some would be things I know because family members have told me about them. And some would be made up. But just because I can write a 200 page story about my childhood does not mean I have a memory any better than anyone else's. It means I am a good storyteller.

It is also easy for people to reinvent history to support whatever purpose they have at hand. He was angry and narcissistic, with a strong sense of entitlement, that much is clear. Whether he was typical or not, that alone would influence both his immediate perceptions and his recollections. This is not an autobiography. It is an excuse, written with the intention, not of accurately portraying his life, but of blaming someone else--apparently all women everywhere--for his unhappiness, his faults...and his final act.


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22 Feb 2015, 8:47 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
... He was angry and narcissistic, with a strong sense of entitlement, that much is clear. ... It is an excuse, written with the intention, not of accurately portraying his life, but of blaming someone else--apparently all women everywhere--for his unhappiness, his faults...and his final act.
The quintessential loser, whom only God could have mercy upon.


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22 Feb 2015, 10:44 pm

SecretSavant wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
I think it's really bizarre.

Honestly, I have a strange fascination with crime and murder. Does this mean I'm a psychopath? I don't think so. I think it's because I'm the exact opposite so I find it fascinating.

You know, it's really really weird, and frankly the manifesto is boring as hell, so I can't get through it nor do I want to, nor do I really want to understand him. The very pedantic, detailed writing suggests autism. But there are other aspects of it that suggest either a psychotic disorder or sociopathy to me. I don't think we can just put him in a box. I think he felt like he was doing the right thing. And that is what is so frightening about it.


I don't think he was in touch with a part of himself, perhaps due to medication, perhaps due to sociopathy.

I recall taking Prozac for the first time, and I had to stop taking it, because it caused me to fantasize about violence in ways I had never done before. I knew it wasn't me, so I immediately quit taking it. Later I found out I wasn't alone in this side effect. Does that mean I have a conscience? I would hope so.

Prozac is also the only drug that I've ever taken that had this side effect, and I've taken quite a few.

He doesn't seem to have any sense of other people's feelings, at all. That to me points to a blindness that is best described as sociopathy, but what is this blindness, really?

It's just another color of the spectrum, to me.


Prozac has also been linked to an increase in narcissistic behavior. Sure, it can help people get over depression, but it can do it by making them callous.

It's actually interesting that the there have been some recent studies that have been published within the last month that actually cast doubt on the efficacy of Prozac as an antidepressant.

The study I read was:

Miller, B., & Hen, R. (2015). The current state of the neurogenic theory of depression and anxiety Current Opinion in Neurobiology, 30, 51-58 DOI: 10.1016/j.conb.2014.08.012


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22 Feb 2015, 10:58 pm

http://www.neuroscientificallychallenge ... of-science

Here's a direct link to that article.



ominous
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22 Feb 2015, 11:27 pm

Plenty of us have suffered extremely traumatic childhoods, shedloads of abuse, and traumatic rejections well into adulthood without wanting to kill anybody. There are people in my life who truly did make my life a living hell, I removed them from my life (which wasn't easy and some of them still try and 'find' me decades later). I never once imagined or fantasised about killing them.

I think that fantasising about killing someone is a psychological issue that should be addressed, irrespective of whether or not the fantasiser would ever consider acting on those fantasies.



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22 Feb 2015, 11:38 pm

B19 wrote:
http://www.neuroscientificallychallenged.com/blog/serotonin-depression-neurogenesis-beauty-of-science

Here's a direct link to that article.


This is actually the direct link to the article - Link -

Your link is a summary I do believe. But thanks for sharing it!


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23 Feb 2015, 1:51 am

As I recall, the manifesto seemed to be mostly about playing video games, buying stuff, and obsessing over girls not liking him.


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23 Feb 2015, 6:11 am

Fnord wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
... He was angry and narcissistic, with a strong sense of entitlement, that much is clear. ... It is an excuse, written with the intention, not of accurately portraying his life, but of blaming someone else--apparently all women everywhere--for his unhappiness, his faults...and his final act.
The quintessential loser, whom only God could have mercy upon.


And this I find interesting.

Do you think he killed because he was a "loser" in life or do you think he was "loser" because he decided to kill???

I don't actually think most "losers" kill? I do think people who kill should be called "losers" thought because they've done something terribly wrong? So by making this claim, you are harming people who shouldn't be harmed and helping people who shouldn't be helped

Not sure this makes sense... but I mean come on, it'z weird. Was this guy a loser? Or was he a loser because he killed? I guess that's the question I'm asking?



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23 Feb 2015, 7:52 am

He was a loser for his hatred of women, his contempt for racial minorities and interracial couples (even though his mother was Malaysian and his father British), for making plans for the killing spree and for carrying out those plans, and for blaming others for his actions before killing himself.

He imagined that if he was in charge, he would quarantine all women in concentration camps, where the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death, just so that he could watch them die.

His manifesto reads like the rants of every loser I've known - men who couldn't get a date, yet who believed that they were more attractive than anyone else, and who blamed all women everywhere for not seeing how beautiful they thought themselves to be.

Instead of facing the fact that it takes more to be attractive than having a pretty-boy face and a fancy car, he chose to prove how really ugly he really was by planning and carrying out multiple murders. Then he proved his own self-hatred by becoming his own murderer.

The fact that he blamed others for the actions he chose to perform shows how much of a loser he really was - the quintessential kind.



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23 Feb 2015, 7:59 am

Fnord wrote:
He was a loser for his hatred of women, his contempt for racial minorities and interracial couples (even though his mother was Malaysian and his father British), for making plans for the killing spree and for carrying out those plans, and for blaming others for his actions before killing himself.

He imagined that if he was in charge, he would quarantine all women in concentration camps, where the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death, just so that he could watch them die.

His manifesto reads like the rants of every loser I've known - men who couldn't get a date, yet who believed that they were more attractive than anyone else, and who blamed all women everywhere for not seeing how beautiful they thought themselves to be.

Instead of facing the fact that it takes more to be attractive than having a pretty-boy face and a fancy car, he chose to prove how really ugly he really was by planning and carrying out multiple murders. Then he proved his own self-hatred by becoming his own murderer.

The fact that he blamed others for the actions he chose to perform shows how much of a loser he really was - the quintessential kind.


^^ Couldn't have said it better myself.


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23 Feb 2015, 8:52 am

Fnord wrote:
He was a loser for his hatred of women, his contempt for racial minorities and interracial couples (even though his mother was Malaysian and his father British), for making plans for the killing spree and for carrying out those plans, and for blaming others for his actions before killing himself.

He imagined that if he was in charge, he would quarantine all women in concentration camps, where the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death, just so that he could watch them die.

His manifesto reads like the rants of every loser I've known - men who couldn't get a date, yet who believed that they were more attractive than anyone else, and who blamed all women everywhere for not seeing how beautiful they thought themselves to be.

Instead of facing the fact that it takes more to be attractive than having a pretty-boy face and a fancy car, he chose to prove how really ugly he really was by planning and carrying out multiple murders. Then he proved his own self-hatred by becoming his own murderer.

The fact that he blamed others for the actions he chose to perform shows how much of a loser he really was - the quintessential kind.


Yes, but why did he even have these thoughts in the first place?

What causes a person to blame others for their own inadequacies? Can we help these people or are they doomed to be mass murderers?

I don't know. I mean, I don't understand the reason why someone would kill people. But I do understand that there are states of consciousness that some people will never understand. And I think some people are just f****d for life to be honest. I don't know. I know this from my thought experiments

Is free will real? Is free will imaginary? Did this man have a choice in his actions? Did he not? I don't think it is ever a good decision to kill. But why would he make such a stupid decision in the first place? He has no defense. He has no alibi. He knows he's screwed for life. Why do such a thing? And how can we prevent this from happening in the future?

As sad as it may sound, I don't think this guy was a sociopath or a psychopath. I have no sympathy for psychopaths. Somehow, however, I find myself having some sympathy for this guy. Is this wrong?

Just my thoughts.



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23 Feb 2015, 8:58 am

Fnord wrote:
Instead of facing the fact that it takes more to be attractive than having a pretty-boy face and a fancy car, he chose to prove how really ugly he really was by planning and carrying out multiple murders. Then he proved his own self-hatred by becoming his own murderer.


I agree with your whole statement, but particularly this.



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23 Feb 2015, 9:06 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Fnord wrote:
He was a loser for his hatred of women, his contempt for racial minorities and interracial couples (even though his mother was Malaysian and his father British), for making plans for the killing spree and for carrying out those plans, and for blaming others for his actions before killing himself.

He imagined that if he was in charge, he would quarantine all women in concentration camps, where the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death, just so that he could watch them die.

His manifesto reads like the rants of every loser I've known - men who couldn't get a date, yet who believed that they were more attractive than anyone else, and who blamed all women everywhere for not seeing how beautiful they thought themselves to be.

Instead of facing the fact that it takes more to be attractive than having a pretty-boy face and a fancy car, he chose to prove how really ugly he really was by planning and carrying out multiple murders. Then he proved his own self-hatred by becoming his own murderer.

The fact that he blamed others for the actions he chose to perform shows how much of a loser he really was - the quintessential kind.


Yes, but why did he even have these thoughts in the first place?

What causes a person to blame others for their own inadequacies? Can we help these people or are they doomed to be mass murderers?

I don't know. I mean, I don't understand the reason why someone would kill people. But I do understand that there are states of consciousness that some people will never understand. And I think some people are just f****d for life to be honest. I don't know. I know this from my thought experiments

Is free will real? Is free will imaginary? Did this man have a choice in his actions? Did he not? I don't think it is ever a good decision to kill. But why would he make such a stupid decision in the first place? He has no defense. He has no alibi. He knows he's screwed for life. Why do such a thing? And how can we prevent this from happening in the future?

As sad as it may sound, I don't think this guy was a sociopath or a psychopath. I have no sympathy for psychopaths. Somehow, however, I find myself having some sympathy for this guy. Is this wrong?

Just my thoughts.
We will never know for certain what the correct answers to your questions. The best course of action at this point is to forget about him and move on with our own lives.


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23 Feb 2015, 11:08 am

The_Walrus wrote:
It was released straight away - I think he put it up himself before he went on his spree.

He didn't have autism. He spent many years being assessed by psychiatrists and didn't receive a diagnosis. Source.

I can recall a lot, more than I'd care to.



Alot of psychiatrist wrongfully diagnose kids with ADHD but turn out to have autism very much later in life, usually with the wrong treatment given for years. :evil:



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23 Feb 2015, 11:10 am

The guy was a murderer, pure and simple.

Whether he was Aspie, autistic, or psychopathic is irrelevant.

We must learn lessons from this, but we must not glorify this by justifying, in any way, what he did.