Was Socrates Autistic?

Post Reply New Topic

Just as a disclaimer, I am extremely uneducated on this matter, but I am just bringing it up out of interest of "what if."

There has been speculation that many philosophers have some form of autism, from Nietzsche to Schopenhauer. This is speculated because of the way an "autists" mind is wired, thinking more logically and straight forward than others.

In Plato's Symposium, I ran across something that I thought was peculiar. When Socrates is walking to a social function with his friends, it is noticed by the host of the party that he did not enter the house with them. Agathon (the host) asks Socrates' friend where it is he could be. His friend goes to search for him and finds him on a neighboring porch. When reporting back to Agathon, the friend mentions that Socrates often loses himself like this, sitting and reflecting, at random times. Agathon suggests to go summon him, but his friend suggests allowing Socrates to attend when he is ready. After a while, Socrates eventually enters the party, and proceeds normally.

What is this about? I may be grasping at straws here, but this sounds extremely familiar to my own life. When going to a party, or when being at a party for a while, I have to escape and lose myself. Again, I may be grasping here, but it almost seems as if this is what Socrates is doing in this story, this, paired with the speculation that many philosophers have been autistic, I would not see it very far-fetched of an idea if it were the case.

What many people fail to realize when they 'channel' the voice of Socrates here in defense of rational discourse is that Socrates is equally a mystical/esoteric leaning individual, as reported with hearing inner voices and leaning toward mystical/esoterical deities as well.

Socrates is reported as a non-conformist; walking barefoot through the streets and rarely bathing.

Honestly, if Socrates is to come into this forum here, the literalists/MATERIAL REDUCTIONISTS/nihilists that inhabit this forum will likely call him insane, schizophrenic, and other pejorative leaning terms, and attempt to shake his confidence in himself by suggesting he is talking gibberish and the scientific method does not evidence the mysticism/esotericism of his expressed heart/soul through human spirit (that empathic 'right-brained' stuff that some/most healthy/FREE humans do).

But per one's statement here, as a casual observer, here are more words of evidence, quoted and linked below, of what I am speaking about here, referenced as such.

The reported Socrates is more like the reported gnostic Jesus than any literally, 'black and white' thinking person, in this forum for sure.

However, another common misconception is that all folks diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum have a literally thinking computer-like mind, and are not able to construct and understand abstract metaphors with high emotional content that do connect with poetic leaning minds like Socrates, etc., etc., etc.....

Obviously, this isn't a welcoming environment for THAT and these more sensitive, loving, empathic, kind, much MUCH DEEPER THINKING Autistic folks will not usually subject themselves to the torment often brought to folks with esoteric/MYSTICAL leaning minds who attempt to tread here.

However, there are folks like me who have tough skin and a kind heart, like Socrates, too, who can literally withstand any distraction or provoking online or in real life, without a flinch of emotion or worry, per the inner life of me, as one who masters mind and body balance like Buddha, who is like this too..

Yes, Socrates, as described in recorded text, is most likely at least on the Broader Autism Phenotype, and the only thing that keeps him from being homeless and destitute, per functionally disabled in culture, is his financial independence at that time, too, like Buddha and Muhammad, as well.

Not everyone gets to walk around town barefoot all day (Socrates); and just sit under a tree (Buddha); or in a cave (Muhammad); or dance walk a martial arts/ballet style of dance 19 months for 3300 miles in the general public, per most metro area stores with a 'shopaholic' wife like me (Fred), with all the free time in the world to think about the deeper mystical/esoteric stuff in life,

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY EXPRESS IT, in human empathic leaning metaphorical emotion (heart/soul/spirit)-fuller human monologue and or dialogue communication.

My current advantage is modern technology and the tools of multimedia communication.

And apparently (OBVIOUSLY) Jesus, (the desert freeloader) will be described as a freeloader today, if he comes again too, kind of like the 'dude' off the 'Big Lebowski' movie too.



The 'Cohen Brothers' in their movies, including the 'Big Lebowski', make a satire out of modern Christianity, as a practice of pointing out the hypocrisy from the actual original intent in metaphors of message, in the teachings of Gnostic Jesus that do still exist, consisting of truth and light.

And of course there are many examples of this in modern artful efforts from artistic folks who REALLY GET THE MESSAGES SPOKEN AT CORE OF WHAT THE METAPHORS OF THE HUMAN CONDITION truly mean in the emotional/spiritual life of human being, in much fuller potential existential intelligence sought, found, employed, utilized and practiced continually in life.

TRUE Genius does not exist where there is no art of imagination and creativity of mind exercised in physical intelligence driving emotional regulation, sensory integration, cognitive executive functioning including enhancing focus and short term working memory to make real human miracles come TRUTH AND LIGHT where the real flesh and blood hits the REAL 'highways' of life.

Standard IQ 'has no clue', to measure TRUE HUMAN GENIUS.

TRUE HUMAN GENIUS, has neither measure or EXPECTATIONS OR LIMITS.

THE Literal thinking mind by very definition is limited, like a computer
with bones of thinking only; instead of flesh and blood heart, soul, and spirit expressed
like Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Einstein, and that list goes on and on and on....infinitum...

They are just the ones who make recorded and or reported history, as such, among others....

ANYWAY, thanks for addressing this.

Unlike Socrates, I do not ask the questions.

I answer them..

With smiles, too..

And IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE,
when AND where
that is available
AND allowed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

Dunno but I feel like Socrates.

Yes, I think I compared you to him before..

Yes you are grasping at straws here. There is no evidence from written records of Sokratis' life(since he never wrote down anything)that he had social deficits. In fact, he's often described as being a man who was very charismatic in addition to being a rational thinker.

In terms of famous people with autism, the one person who almost certainly had all the requisite traits was H P Lovecraft.

Most socially awkward people are not autistic.

Therefore, any given socially awkward person is probably not autistic.

The only piece of evidence given to support the idea that Socrates is autistic is his reported social awkwardness (assuming that account is accurate). Therefore, Socrates was probably not autistic.

Thanks for the post @aghogday.

Interesting stuff... I failed to connect this reading with the idea of the Daimon, that seems to add an element to this.

The way Socrates wanted to be the gadfly always wanting to bite Athens in the hind can be thought of as autistic thinking.
Socrates didn't care that he might be irritating, he just wanted Athenians to think about stuff. Autistics might be able to relate to the hope that people around them would think a bit more.

I often feel it is my duty to be The Gadfly of PPR and I don't stop there. I want to be The Gadfly in the Life Arena!

Which is it better to be? The Gadfly or The Sluggish Horse?

You're welcome..

To be a 'true' philosopher is to come up with something new.

I'll go to the new place and let others stay in the old place, if they like.

But truly, new places are much more fun for me.

I too, am no sluggish horse that refuses to move or 'change'..

Whatever it is that Confucius, Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and Einstein 'has',
I have 'THAT' too, to a large degree, and 'three' in my case, hehe!..

Autism is described in terms of reciprocal social communication deficits and RRB's.

There is not much doubt that any of these folks have RRB'S, per restrictive interests and repetitive behaviors, per reports of that behavior, now.

And there is no doubt they had problems communicating their all encompassing and restricted interests, per unique insights, to the 'common folk' who lived during the reported period of their lives.

And overall, people still do not have a frigging clue, as to what their actual intent is in social communication, where there wasn't much 'small talk' either, then, according to reports of their life.

At least in written words, per the guidelines of the behavioral deficits of Autism, there is literally little difference in their general behavior and the way the Autistic folks talk here in text reporting their behaviors in real life, per restricted and repetitive behaviors, and talking about stuff in deep metaphorical or wordy literal language that MOST other folks don't give a crap about or have the capacity to understand.

Monologues are what these folks are about with people just listening without likely getting many words in edgewise, except for the questioner Socrates. But still with him, the majority of the population during his time wouldn't have a WTF idea of what he is talking about, then, per reports of that talk.

Talking deep metaphorical stuff or complex literal stuff that other folks don't understand is almost as much of a handicap as not talking at all when it comes to reciprocal social communication difficulties.

Obviously, they couldn't be diagnosed, then, and probably wouldn't today,
if the were financially independent and did their own niche stuff, now.

But never the less, they were as Autistic, as many folks come across, at least in text, on this site.

And it's truly hard to judge alone, by written text, now or then, as Autism is as much an issue of difficulties with non-verbal language as well that we have no substantial reports of knowing anything about the non-verbal prowess in language for any of these most well known philosophers, in the history of humankind.

And the same applies, in general, to folks on this forum.

Some folks may be very verbose in writing, and have a dead 'affect' in personality, per non-verbal language in real life,
causing many folks to steer clear of them, as it is not usually social acceptable behavior NOT to communicate with non-verbal language in real life. That is a huge unknown both on this site, and for these famous philosophers of old..

possibly.

Archimedes would fit the AS diagnosis today as well...
he had an obsession with circles and math.

Many famous people of antiquity could fit the diagnosis

A lot of autistic people don't think that way, and plenty of non-autistic people DO have that way of thinking. There isn't anything about autism that intrinsically compels a person to be a gadfly.

Most non autistic do not wish to be The Gadfly. They just want to go with the flow and I do that some, too, but I have no qualms about being The Gadfly when necessary. Autistic is more likely to make waves because of not really being aware of what sort of waves they will make and just hoping to make the world better.

AMEN.

I know quite a few autistic people who have no desire to "make waves". Many of them have their hobbies, interests, perhaps a small circle of friends and maybe even a partner and they just want to be left alone to do their own thing and don't pay much attention to the rest of the world until people really bother them. Some outcasts focus their attention on observing the world around them, but others simply shut it out.

Being a gadfly means getting attention; and a lot of that attention is negative. Extroverted NTs, and particularly people with other mental disorders like bipolar in particular, *thrive* on attention and also have charisma and confidence which they use to try to develop a circle of admirers and even a cult following.

The description of Sokratis is that of a man who was not only a rational thinker, but a skilled debater and a highly persuasive character. You WANT to believe that he was autistic, but there really is no evidence for this nor any valid reason to think so.

It's not about getting attention for one's self. It's about getting people to think about their world and who better to do that than autistic people? It's about a keen social awareness that it might not be such a good idea to always go with the flow. That's why many autistics feel like square pegs in round holes at nine to five jobs. Everyone seems to just go along but autistics will say what they feel needs saying, especially if it will help a situation. Autistics, generally, are not shy about saying, "No. It would be better if we did it this way. Why would you do it that way? Doesn't make sense," even if it's to someone that has a huge ego and feels like everyone should kowtow. Autistics are not intimidated about using the word "no" while everyone else goes about trying to disguise the "no" with a "yes."

I have no idea if Socrates was Autistic but I can relate well to him. I especially like Socratic Questioning which can be great great fun. Ever try it?