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AspieOtaku
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27 Apr 2015, 8:47 pm

It has come to my attention since the eternal debate whether or not a god exist as to why usually the most extreme religious people tend to be homophobic? Is there a correlation between homophobia and monotheistic religions?


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mr_bigmouth_502
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27 Apr 2015, 9:15 pm

I think homophobia just comes from the innate hatred people have for others who aren't like themselves. Some people learn how to overcome this hatred, but many do not, and shockingly, some people even think that this hatred is justified, and they encourage it! Human nature is a very, very f**ked-up thing.



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27 Apr 2015, 9:29 pm

I think it is a fear of the Other. People other than yourself. People fear what they do not understand.


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AspieOtaku
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27 Apr 2015, 9:55 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I think homophobia just comes from the innate hatred people have for others who aren't like themselves. Some people learn how to overcome this hatred, but many do not, and shockingly, some people even think that this hatred is justified, and they encourage it! Human nature is a very, very f**ked-up thing.
I think such hatred and ignorance is a sickening thing in a way it is no different from racism or hatred of autistic people. I have lost faith in humanity because of vile garbage such as this.


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28 Apr 2015, 1:19 am

People feel uncomfortable about things they don't understand, and many things cannot be truly understood without experiencing them yourself. That discomfort manifests itself as various negative emotions, which often lead to negative attitudes / thought patterns.

The prevalence of negative attitudes towards homosexuals in the United States could potentially have a link to [the teachings of certain sects] of monotheistic religions, but certainly not to the following of such religions (except perhaps Islam).
Despite the seemingly vast number of homophobic people who claim to be Christian, they have no valid religious justification for such attitudes.

And when I say "homophobic", I don't mean "anyone who thinks that gay sex is morally wrong, or gross", I mean people (and I've actually known quite a few) who treat homosexuals poorly solely on the basis of their [perceived] sexual orientation.



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28 Apr 2015, 5:54 am

I don't think homophobia is innate. I'm amazed at how much attitudes have changed (for the better) in my lifetime.

When I was at school (in the early 1980s) no openly gay pupil would have been tolerated - they would have been attacked savagely and relentlessly. When I was at university homophobia was still the default attitude on the streets and in the media. The Tories' Section 28 forbade the promotion of a gay lifestyle by local authorities.

Now I work in an office where a gay colleague entered into a Civil Partnership and has a picture of his partner on his desk and everyone is fine with it. If someone starts a homophobic rant they are called out on it.

I'm not saying for one moment that gay people have it easy now but... that's one Hell of a change in under 30 years. It's almost as if homophobia isn't a natural but has been fed to people. I remember growing up that every media portrayal of gay characters showed them either as actual villains, laughable or just a bit creepy.

Have those media attitudes come from religion? I think so.

The most powerful religions are the ones with the most followers and they've got the most followers by promoting everything that maximises population growth and vilifying any lifestyles that don't encourage this growth.

So I think that homophobia is just a by-product of religion's quest for power.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Apr 2015, 1:22 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
It has come to my attention since the eternal debate whether or not a god exist as to why usually the most extreme religious people tend to be homophobic? Is there a correlation between homophobia and monotheistic religions?

I think the reason people are homophobic is due to how humans reproduce. All species on earth exist to reproduce themselves and all have this basic instinct to continue their species into the future so when a member of a species is gay and will only stay with members of their own gender, in species where a male and female are needed to reproduce, it simply means the ones who stay with their own gender will not help create more of the species in question and since species are programmed by their genes to want to keep replicating, there's a panic about too many of the species not wanting to do what is required to replicate the species.

That's what I think causes "homophobia."

And it's not just homosexuality that causes this kind of phobia. Whenever heterosexual people do not produce enough offspring, you see this panic as well in parts of society. I think the species is just genetically programmed to reproduce as often as possible like all other species to keep it going and to increase its chances of survival so anytime something threatens the birth rate, there's elements of panic.



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28 Apr 2015, 5:24 pm

There is still lots of homophobia floating around.

However, it should be stated that gay people have made enormous progress since the 1970s.

When I was growing up in the 1960s-1970s, one couldn't even use the word "homosexual" without feeling like one had to "hush it up." It was almost a taboo subject. Many homosexuals remained in the closet, for obvious reasons. Homosexuality was only legalized in the United States in 1967; before then, it was actually illegal to be a homosexual. In many states, until very recently, homosexual SEX was illegal; until the 1990's (though hardly ever enforced), there was a penal law called "consensual sodomy" which rendered homosexual sex illegal (though homosexuality itself was legal by that time).

Gay marriage? I could not even conceive of it growing up. Things started loosening up in the mid 1970s, around the time I first heard the word "gay" for homosexual. Before then, all I heard were derogatory terms for homosexual--especially "homo" and "fa***t." And these were used for people who were not necessarily homosexual--they were general insults back then.



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28 Apr 2015, 10:41 pm

I don't know if homophobia is a product specifically of monotheism, however it is widely propergated by all the Abrahmic religions. To answer those who see homophobia as a result of opposition to an "unnatural act" you need to learn about the many cultures where homosexual behaviour was not only tolerated it was quite acceptable even normal, Greece and Rome come immediately to mind.

To my mind belief in God and the companion religions may be a source of comfort to some, but are a curse to many more.


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28 Apr 2015, 11:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is still lots of homophobia floating around.

However, it should be stated that gay people have made enormous progress since the 1970s.

When I was growing up in the 1960s-1970s, one couldn't even use the word "homosexual" without feeling like one had to "hush it up." It was almost a taboo subject. Many homosexuals remained in the closet, for obvious reasons. Homosexuality was only legalized in the United States in 1967; before then, it was actually illegal to be a homosexual. In many states, until very recently, homosexual SEX was illegal; until the 1990's (though hardly ever enforced), there was a penal law called "consensual sodomy" which rendered homosexual sex illegal (though homosexuality itself was legal by that time).

Gay marriage? I could not even conceive of it growing up. Things started loosening up in the mid 1970s, around the time I first heard the word "gay" for homosexual. Before then, all I heard were derogatory terms for homosexual--especially "homo" and "fa***t." And these were used for people who were not necessarily homosexual--they were general insults back then.


Homosexual sex was legalized in the United States nationwide in 2003 following the Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court decision that struck down so-called "sodomy laws." At that time, about a dozen states had criminal sanctions against certain sex practices, and four of those dozen specifically criminalized same-sex sexual behavior.

The modern gay rights movement in the United States hadn't even begun by 1967. Maybe you're thinking of the UK, which legalized homosexuality in 1967?


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28 Apr 2015, 11:23 pm

I think people are homophobic is be because they are taught that. They are taught that it's wrong to date other people the same gender as you and have sex with them. Also don't forget religion, some people are that because their religion tells them it's wrong. It's like they can;t even form their own POV so they need a religion to tell them what to believe in. Also homophobia can be taught from peer pressure so someone might be ashamed about being gay or be scared they are and try and live a straight life, especially if they were taught that at home.


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29 Apr 2015, 3:48 am

There can't really be any doubt that religion is a large factor. Just look at any discussion about gay marriage - most of the objectors will use religious arguments. Those who use other arguments will nearly always be supporting their religious views too.



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29 Apr 2015, 5:38 am

Here's my attempted theory:

I think the origin of Homophobia is somewhere where a certain group's population is higher because they don't practice homosexuality, not fear it.
And thinks this population growth means 'practical' in that era, and perhaps grew more powerful as times comes. More people means more land to occupy, more resources needed, and more 'power'. Where most tribes or groups in that era are just small. And so:
Then this certain culture falsely thought that they have "Woken up from their primal urges", and starts slandering others that are not alike them thinking they're 'savages' or 'sub-human'. Thinking it's for the humanity's 'sake' because they thought it's 'practical'. As they are many, they are powerful hence they 'conquered' it's neighbors.
Then it spreads, and religion seems to be a noticeable part so people won't dare to question it. And maybe *just maybe* it also a part of their idea of "modernity" in that era because they thought it's 'practical'.
Then it morphs to this present where there's still people thinks that homosexuality isn't natural to begin with. And the funniest result of all is overpopulation.


Does it sounds stupid or trolling? I'm not trolling by the way, it's just something I want to let out since someone wants a non-theological answer, not anti-theological. Feel free to spot holes and put out the gaps.


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29 Apr 2015, 8:17 am

Sexuality and Gender is a spectrum.

In my experience, as historically speaking
considered by both sexes, to be an attractive male;

I personally find that the most verbal
homophobes are often caught later at a place
of closeted homosexual action,
at secluded parks, etc.

So in my opinion, quite often,
it is a statement of hidden desires
spoken in a fearful way.

Life is much more than 50 shades of grey;
any real balanced human has aspects
of both the feminine and the masculine.

Attraction doesn't play by rules in a book;
particularly closed minded covers of bibles.

And for some folks their own nature scares the hell out of 'em; silly, yes but true in nations
of imbalanced human beings who are stuck in extremely complex cultural ways of head;
instead of being IN TOUCH with mind and body balance of what human being even is.

The Bonobo better reflects a free nation of humans;

than the aggressive and often violent chimpanzee;

And Bonobos engage in homosexual acts all the
time to reduce aggression;
JUST as in the days
of the rise of Rome.

People who are secure in their humanity;
need not fear the different among us.
And that comes in many more
shades of color than
homophobes, per
any kind of
bully;
physical
or intellectual.

It's all kind of sad to me;
that folks can't just
accept their
own selves,
as that is always the
first step to accepting others;
no matter how different they are.

I've never had a problem with anyone;
no matter how different they are; as long
as they are not obviously intending to harm
someone else. Much of what I see in this world;
is just ignorant and sad. So easy just to love oneself
and move on in tolerating and accepting all others with
just a little cognitive effort. And that's the problem; some
folks have little to no relative human free will to do this, NOW.


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29 Apr 2015, 9:30 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Here's my attempted theory:

I think the origin of Homophobia is somewhere where a certain group's population is higher because they don't practice homosexuality, not fear it.
And thinks this population growth means 'practical' in that era, and perhaps grew more powerful as times comes. More people means more land to occupy, more resources needed, and more 'power'. Where most tribes or groups in that era are just small. And so:
Then this certain culture falsely thought that they have "Woken up from their primal urges", and starts slandering others that are not alike them thinking they're 'savages' or 'sub-human'. Thinking it's for the humanity's 'sake' because they thought it's 'practical'. As they are many, they are powerful hence they 'conquered' it's neighbors.
Then it spreads, and religion seems to be a noticeable part so people won't dare to question it. And maybe *just maybe* it also a part of their idea of "modernity" in that era because they thought it's 'practical'.
Then it morphs to this present where there's still people thinks that homosexuality isn't natural to begin with. And the funniest result of all is overpopulation.


Does it sounds stupid or trolling? I'm not trolling by the way, it's just something I want to let out since someone wants a non-theological answer, not anti-theological. Feel free to spot holes and put out the gaps.


It's a plausible narrative. The potential hole would be in the premise that Group A out-reproduced Group B because they practiced no homosexual sex. I have no idea what population records were kept back in the day but perhaps some historian has looked into ancient Greek populations which 1)were accepting and even promoting of homosexual sex and 2)were decent record keepers which may include census records. Did this out-populating actually happen?

Confounding variables: other types of non-reproductive sex which including masturbation and use of birth control.

It is worth noting that the Abrahamic religions have strongly frowned on all types of non-reproductive sex and that the taboos on those have weakened and may never have been as strong as against homosexual sex (perhaps because they are situational and don't rule out reproduction at a later point?) but they have been taboo. It is truly possible that homophobia may be a subset of the "all sex should have reproduction as a potential outcome" meme which would help a population grow. It is also worth noting that homophobia seems (to me) to be strongest in sub-cultures that are trying for strength in numbers. "We will out-reproduce our enemies" is an actual, conscious strategy that some populations have used.



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29 Apr 2015, 12:44 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
There can't really be any doubt that religion is a large factor. Just look at any discussion about gay marriage - most of the objectors will use religious arguments. Those who use other arguments will nearly always be supporting their religious views too.
I think the thought process is drilled in their skulls to see people who are gay or being gay as evil and going to hell. The idea that Homosexuality is a choice regardless of recent scientific studies that prove the majority are born gay. These people are so brainwashed they ignore scientific facts and dismiss it as the devils work or some ridiculous crap like that.


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