Bobbi Kristina Another life lost to that nasty drug Heroin!

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You can do heroin twice a week for life and never get sick. You get sick after a period of constant use. That happens after a few days use. It's mild sick, but it's bad to people who have never been dopesick. You get addicted when you gt a monkey killer. You are sick for a day, maybe two and it's nothing. You do not get addicted or sick after a shot. Also the first shot is not the best and you are always trying to chase that. That is a myth. A huge myth. Trust me on taht one. As long as you space it out and don't get a tolerance then it's the same. It's not as good when you get a tolerance and tolerance builds quickly. It also drops quickly. Thats why guys get out of jail after a couple weeks who were doing bag shots and die from their first one. They should have quartered it. Their tolerance dropped and they didn't know it. That is common. I've done later shots which were much, MUCH better than my earlier ones.

I remember distinctly my dope shooting days. It didn't pass in a haze that I don't remember and I was sick and desperate. I enjoyed it because I was smart. I know lots who were on everything and had to have something. I was never like that. never will be because when I feel the call I step back and stay away for months if not years. I remember nights at Ginsberg's place where we were all shooting dope and listening to CCR and talking about the government and some hostage situation overseas. We had a long coherent conversation. We would get high and go to Turkey Creek and shoot guns. Safely because we were a little high, not way high like in the movies. One night they almost laughed me out of there because I had done a shot and then somebody had some "Rush". Thats the stuff you could buy in the bottles in the 80s that you sniffed the liquid vapors and got a head rush. It was also called "Locker Room" for the smell. I don't know what it was, amyl nitrate maybe? Anyway I wouldn't dare do it and told them hell no that was dangerous and if they were smart they wouldn't eitehr it could give a heart attack. I said that as I was cooking my next shot. They laughed cause I'd stick a needle in my arm but wouldn't sniff Rush which 12 year old kids would do.

It's not how you think it is at all. But it's also not glamerous or romantic or anything like that. It is what it is, and sometimes that is bad, especially if you get hooked or get some bunk or get ripped off. I avoided that. Most did not. I look back on it with nostalgia yes, not because of the dope but because it was my teen years and I see it through a lens of time. I don't remember the boredom of waiting, or the sitting around listening to people b***h, or any of that or of dealing with the people who were on it and sick. I mean I do remember it, but that isn't what comes to mind. But I never got on it and I never got hooked. I got a little sick sometimes but I expected it when it came and I got through it and stayed away for a bit.

Please don't perpetuate myths. It's not helpful at all. I don't want people on heroin any more than you do, but tell them the whole truth about it. It's also not the best there is either.

I know I've posted in this thread a lot, but I wanted to clear up a lot of misconceptions that are being bandied around here. I've actually done it, a lot. With other people. I've recently had a heroin addict live with me last year when her bf was in jail. Hell I've recently snorted it quite a few times when she broke me off. I even did a shot for old times sake and it was just as good as my first one. But I didn't do it that way again. No need to. I know it's still there. Maybe I'll start back when I'm 80 so when my grandkids say "Grandma died" their friends can say "Awww, I'm sorry. Cancer? Heart attack?" They can say "No, heroin overdose" and the friends can say "Go grandma!" ****That was a joke!! ! I won't do that then I'll probably already be on oxycontin for my lung cancer from not quitting smoking****

So no myths please. I know the truth and that isn't it. Nor is trainspotting nor panic in needle park nor any media represntation that romanticises it on one hand or shows it as something that makes you always falling down high on the other. Active addicts can do a 20 sack and get maybe a ten minute nod then get up and go to work and have energy and motivation and a bit of euphoria like from mild opiates. You can also be f****d up as hell for hours upon hours from big shots done over and over and actually sit back nodding for hours and hours. However the nod isn't you being at deaths door, it's you being in deaths house playing death's playstation while death is taking a nap on the couch. Not harmless. Not by a long shot. But usually not fatal. Just don't wake up death cause you can if you don't know what you are doing. No myths please, and no trying heroin for the first time eiterh please, anybody. It's not worth it and most won't be able to resist it. Everybody thinks they can but most cannot.

I agree that it does need to be bashed, but it needs to be bashed truthfully. That is what I'm doing. It might piss you off what I've said but every bit of it is true. It's not something to do. I've posted a lot here because a friend is battling her addiction to it and I hate to see that, she's winning though. I don't want anyone on it and I never mentioned it to her that I had done it until she told me she was on it. But I'm telling the truth about it. I have plenty of stories of what it's done to friends and s**t it's made them do to get it, but everybody can imagine those anyway. I'm telling the truth about the effects of it and the addiction process though. It's easy to get on it but not as easy as all that.

No there are other drugs more dangerous than heroin. It's much easier to OD on ground up oxycontin than it is on heroin. Grind up an OC80 if you can still find one you don't need a power drill for or even an opana 40 and watch somebody do a line of heroin and the same line of one of those two drugs. I've snorted all three of those. Recently. The heroin was much less potent than the pharms, and it was pretty decent gear. Not the best I've had but pretty decent nontheless. You would easily OD from any of them but those pharms are more potent than the smack.

Another more dangerous and fairly easy to get drug are fentanyl patches. Had one or three not too long ago. The Mylar ones you can cut. You have to be PRECISE in how much you do because it's time release over 72 hours. you have no tolerance and put on a quarter of the patch even and by the time you start feeling too high your skin has absorbed enough to kill you in a couple hours even if you take it off then. Those are around too, for 40 bucks. A bag of smack is 20.

It's no marketing campaign at all. There is no heroin marketing strategy. Dealers don't have to push it. They just have to be let it known they have it and word of mouth gets it out and they get people coming for it. The dealers don't seek out the customers, the customers have to seek out the dealers. THere is also many times not enough to go around even for the established junkies there already are so there is no need to make more. Nobody has a surplus of heroin supplies. There is no marketing strategy. Nobody talks about it either except with other people who do it. It's looked down on in the drug community. You only find out by accident or if they tell you or if you do it too and notice somebody else out and about sick. You can tell if you know what to look for. You can tell a heroin high in somebody who will pass as not high if you know what to look for. Junkies who want it can tell the people to ask about it that way. Really. I've done it myself.

Heroin is NOT SAFE. It's not safe AT ALL. But there are more dangerous opiates out there. Playing it up as the absolute most dangerous killer there is will do nothing except make people disbelieve anything you say. Over time it's the most dangerous killer because people don't usually get recreationally addicted to the pills. They aren't around as often. But they do get addicted to heroin because it's always there and it's easier to do every day, so they get hooked and many times they eventually die.


But on a per use basis, there are more dangerous opiates. I don't expect you to know this and I wouldn't have believed it if somebody who knew from experience had told me unless I found out for myself. I've seen more people OD and have to go to the hospital or be watched and walked on other opiates than on heroin, but I've seen that plenty of times too so it's far from safe. Heroin is only safe if you are in the UK and in the hospital and given it in a shot by a nurse who is reading the doctor's orders. But it's not as unsafe as people think. Lots die from it, yes but safe use is possible although no use is reccommended.

I just now noticed you posted, OliveOilMom.

I want to share a story from the news about a girl in St Louis who died after she injected heroin but it might not be what people think of as a typical death from heroin. She was getting high in a parking of a casino when the cops showed up and even though she had just finished injecting herself with heroin, she grabbed a gun and and killed herself right in front of the cops. According to those who believe heroin is warm and fuzzy, this would not have happened because she would have been too happy and huggy to do this yet the evidence speaks to the contrary and there were eye witnesses. Yes, she committed suicide after taking heroin. So much for that myth! So much about what heroin is and what it does to the mind is misunderstood by the public, apparently.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... ded2b.html

I never said it makes you happy and huggy at all. It's not a hippie drug and it's not pot. It's not ecstacy. It makes you high. Whatever your personality is, thats what you are but high. Either she thought she was gonna go to jail for having the drugs or other reasons I don't know. Maybe the heroin dropped her defenses so she did it. It's never made anybody I know suicidal or depressed while on it, only when coming off it. That is not typical heroin behavior, it could have possibly been a speedball and speed can cause that extreme paranoia that would make it happen.

Nobody is trying to promote it as happy and huggy. Nobody.

Also, that paralysis you are talking about is the nod. You are not paralyzed, just very heavy and sleepy. You feel like you do when you are just falling asleep and still aware or just waking up and just aware but don't want to move and want to go back to sleep. Except high. And completely and totally awake in your mind. Your body is just heavy and your eyes are extremely hard to open and it's an effort to pick up your arms etc, but you can. That is the nod. That is what scares people when they don't know what to expect. You do not get the nod with speedballs and the nod takes a minute or two to hit. If the girl had shot up and it had been more than a minute or two and she wasn't nodding at all then it was a speedball. Or she had speed on board. Otherwise you nod. Unless she was just doing a maintenance dose.

But I have never in my life felt literally paralyzed on heroin and I've done big shots before. I've felt very heavy and just high as hell and "couldn't move" but only because it was hard to, but I could get up and go pee or get water or something if I had to. You are thinking of the nod and how it's described. Some people do hate it, others love it, but the nod is not the high.

It's not happy, it's euphoric from a dopamine release in your brain. Gives you a sense of well being that all opiates give. Some give it more than others. Heroin gives it more than vicodin and percoset, oxymorphone like opana, and of course morphine etc, but less than fentanyl. It's not happy per se. And it's far from huggy. The only thing I've ever heard about heroin and hugs is someone described it as "being hugged by God" because of the good mental feeling you get from the high when you do a decent shot. Not the nod, the high. Those are two different things. The nod can ruin the high for somebody who is scared of it or who doesn't know to expect it. That is common with newbies who don't have people to help them and even some who do but it's too intense. It's an intense drug and not for people who scare easily at a really high high. However you don't have to get really high when you do it. You can get three or four percodan high with it. It depends on how much you do.

So, nobody has tried to say it's happy and huggy or warm fuzzies or safe. Nobody. I do say it's a good high though, for most people who like opiate highs. I say it's safer than some other hardcore drugs but more dangerous than most others. It's not a good drug to do at all and it's one that will most commonly bite you in the ass, so stay away from it.

It is something to turn your nose up at and to avoid at all costs because like you said, it's not that great and plus you get really addicted to it and it can kill you pretty easily. Even if you argue it was legalized, it's the impurities and lack of consistency that's the problem, it would be safe for people if it were manufactured under regulations, that's a lie because people will still be taking more and more of the safest version and that what does them in. Plus, it's a depressant or it can even act as a stimulant, depending on your reaction but I have seen it resemble both at different times, in the same person.

I respect your first hand experience but I still stand by what I have typed and it's based on what friends and acquaintances experienced and have imparted on me and I trust them to tell me the truth. If I have heard people say how awful it is, I trust them. It's that simple. There really was a time when something like 99% of drug users did not like this drug. I was there I witnessed it! It had the worst reputation. That doesn't mean no one took it because every once in a while, I'd see them in clubs but they were too messed up to even talk to. They were completely wrapped up in themselves, couldn't walk, didn't know what they were doing, completely out of their minds and that one guy attacked this band my friends and I went to see for no reason at all, just because he was high and completely out of it and then he fell on the floor. They left the stage right after they began and didn't return. He pissed them off, stopped them from playing. People wouldn't believe that's a part of heroin but it apparently is. People believe, from what I have read online, and i don't know who is posting it but from what I have seen irl it's bs, that the only thing anyone can do on heroin is sit around floating through their minds, in this heightened state of pleasure, they couldn't hurt a fly, they are happy, they feel great, blah blah blah. It is simply false to believe that. I posted a link about a girl who was high when she killed herself after a security guard came along and she was afraid she would get caught with a cds. All this while on heroin so it's not this wonderful experience people think it is where no one cares what happens to them because everything feels good. It can be a roller coaster ride, with periods of immobility then moments of clarity where they can attack someone including themselves, and sometimes without any known reason whatsoever and they don't really know what they are doing either because it effects their minds in ways that make them act irrationally but it's the drug, not them.
It was just thought of as a total bummer. It really was. Everything about it. There wasn't enough good for them to take a second dose. Tried it once, then it was like, they told others how much it sucked after that.

Oliveoilmom, I HAVE seen people promote it like that. At the least, they don't talk about how horrible it is or that most the time it's a killer. Other times they come right out and talk about it like it's the best high ever which is horrible for anyone thinking about taking it to read since it is the worse thing you could take. You are one of the lucky ones to survive it. Most of what I read about it is the most ridiculous tripe I have ever read, except what I am posting about it and similar, but that is few and far between. A lot of times I read what is posted and wonder if members of drug cartels wrote it personally just to get people to take it.

I actually read something that said heroin is a cup of hot cocoa and warm bath which is just appalling to anyone who has ever seen anyone addicted to it or knows the horror stories of people trying to get off it and that's not counting the ones who have died on an overdose or acted irrationally while on it, without ever knowing or remembering what they did.

Sorry, but that is not my experience. It's a crappy drug as in it addicts you and kills you, it's not a crappy high that you wouldn't waste your time or money on again. It's a good high, just not a good drug. You get addicted. I've said this over and over yet you still want to act like I've said something different.

Also, that guy sounds more like placidyls than heroin. Or possibly a mixture. Most folks on heroin by itself don't get violent. Just like most on other opiates don't. However, mix it with something else and no telling what happens. I"M NOT SAYING ITS A HAPPY HUGGY FLOATY HIPPY DRUG though. I'm saying I've never seen somebody get violent on heroin out of the blue. I've seen high people get in fights and get violent OVER SOMETHING, when they blew it out of proportion cause they were high, but never seem anybody on it just attack for no reason. That is not how it works on the mind, and the mind is where it gives you the high.

I have extensive personal experience in the drug scene. I'm not proud of that, but I do. I enjoyed drugs and I made sure to know everything about them and NEVER let myself get hooked. That doesn't mean what I did was smart. I also did a ton of drugs over the years, and after my teens and early 20's I quit for a long time. I'd do something occasionally if it was offered, but thats all. I've only got back into it a little over the past maybe four years or so and certainly not like I was, however all this time most of my friends have been drug users. If something new came out that looked interesting and I wanted to see what it was like, I'd try it. No problem. I usually didn't care for the new stuff. Meth sucks. It was made to replace kitchen crank when they quit selling the inhalers that you needed for it. I enjoyed kitchen crank almost as much as coke. We made a lot of it back in the day. But meth failed the OOM test. It's crap. Not even to be done occasionally. Heroin was ok for me and I enjoyed it and don't mind doing it occasionally but it's not worth the risk of addiction to do it more. It's not worth the health risks at my age to bang it either. So I don't do that. I can weigh the pro's and con's and while you don't want to admit it there are some pro's that make you feel damn good. It's not the best, but it's not "no good". I wouldn't pick it over quite a few other drugs, but it's a good high and a better one for those who prefer opiates.

As for why it went away, well the DEA. You couldn't get the brown over the border much anymore, and China white became more popular. people found out it was the fent in it that felt better so they would buy plain fentanyl. In the 80's it was about getting the best of the best. Coke was a big drug then, and so was drugs like ecstacy because of how it made you feel. Back when an x pill was MDMA and not just meth and valium and s**t with maybe a little MDMA in there. Fentanyl and Demerol were the major drugs used by the opiate crowd then. Heroin has always been looked down on in the drug community. Like meth is now. It was always considered the big dog you don't mess with unless you have a death wish. That didn't fit in the 80's. Not at all. Heroin isn't a club drug. But it was around a little, mainly hardcore junkies and some folks who couldn't afford fentanyl. Remember, I'm talking from experience here, not conjecture and hearsay.

When it did make a comeback it came back as black tar. Looks different and they said it was safer. You smoked it. I hear it's good, the same as brown really but I know how they make that s**t and wouldn't touch it. Smoking heroin wasn't what most people thought of. Most thought of shooting it and only a few of snorting it. Back in the day I shot it. These past times I've snorted it. Smoking it seemed safer so people started doing tar. In some places thats all you can get. You can get it everywhere but you can't get brown everywhere. You can shoot tar but it takes work. Hell, if you can shoot suboxone film you can shoot damn near anything. So heroin started coming back in the 90s with alternative music. It was not supposed to be the heroin of the 70's. It was considered new and a different generation of the drug. It was not. That was all just BS talk among 20 something grungers. It was heroin, just like Janis Joplin, Jimmi Hendrix and Keith Richards and that bum who hangs out by the health food store used. So thats how it came back. Tar. Smoking was supposed to be safer but it wasn't. It came about around the time meth got popular. Most smoked meth but some shot it. Smoking it seemed harmless, like pot. So it got a foothold and addicted a new generation of idiots.

However, I never said any of the things you are saying. I don't know anybody who has done heroin who WOULD say those things to be honest. Of course I'm only talking from years of experience with heroin off and on and with other drugs as well and when almost all my friends have been drug users, hardcore drug users even if off and on, so our conversations about drugs were a bit different than conversations between someone who doesn't do hardcore drugs and someone who does.

I'm talking from experience, and not saying what you are saying I'm saying. Who are they going to believe? We both say it's bad, please don't try to overblow it into something it's not.

If it was as crappy as you say it is, nobody would do it a second time.

When somebody who uses it and likes it talks about it, they are going to say good things about it. They aren't going to say it's crap. Why would they? As for dealers, if you have talked to dealers going around promoting heroin to you I seriously doubt you ever talked to any actual dealers cause that isn't what they do. Not at all. Ever. Ever. They might in a livingroom with friends when they get something and the people ask about it. Of course. They aren't going to say it's crap don't ever do it. Of course they say it's a good high cause it is. It's pretty much a given when you are putting a needle in your arm that you know it could kill you. They don't have to tell you that. Nobody has to tell you heroin is addictive. That would be stupid.

I don't think you ever were around hardcore users and certainly no dealers and have no clue where you are getting your ideas from, but where they are from they aren't from any actual drug culture. You may have read something online or saw a movie or documentary or know somebody who tried it once or know somebody who knows somebody who tried it, but wherever you got your info on what its like and how it's sold etc, it's bs. Cause I've been around the blocked a thousand times and never seen anything like that. That isn't how it's done. That isn't how heroin makes you feel.

You are doing a good thing by talking against it, but you can go too far and become obviously unaware of what you are actually talking about. I think you crossed that line.

Either way, I'm not here to argue with you about heroin. Believe what you want. Talk like you know what you are talking about if you want to, but I seriously doubt anyone would believe you. I'm far from the most knowledgable out there on drugs, but I know more than the average bear and certainly more than anybody on this thread. I've been in deep in lots of things, and I survived because I knew what I was getting into and I'm smart enough and had enough self control to make sure I didn't do what I wanted to do so badly.

I've been there. You have not. Who will John Q Public believe about heroin? (heroin is bad for you and you shouldn't do it - we agree on that) But when you talk about the effects, you are talking out of your behind. That may be what somebody told you but they told you some crap.

Pointing out the obvious:

She killed herself.

I've seen and read enough commercials for heroin. Thanks but no thanks.

I am not going to blame the culture, the user, the impurities, or the illegality.

Put the blame where it belongs and it belongs on heroin. Until people wake up and start doing that, it will be continuously romanticized and the myths concerning this drug and it's "virtues" will linger resulting in more addicts due to the lies surrounding it.

And the only ones who profit from it? Why, the cartels, of course which is exactly what they want! So keep playing into that, Oliveoilmom, but I will not.

What? I'm not playing into anything at all. I have no idea what you are on about. I know we both agree that it's not good to do and people would be better off if they never did it, but what your stance is, I have no clue. First you tell me I'm wrong about how it makes you feel, then you tell me I'm wrong about whether or not it's advertised, then you some how seem to be saying that the cartels and their Don Draper clone have created a generation of people who decide to do heroin before they do any other drug and somehow are able to find it with no experience whatsoever when you have actual users out there who can't find anything because it's dry a good bit of the time, and now I have no idea what you seem to think I'm "playing in to". Am I playing in to what I remember about when heroin started getting popular among other people I know? If so, please tell me. You do obviously know my life and my experiences so much better than I do, so do inform me if I got that part of my past wrong as well please.

As for blaming heroin, well heroin is an object. It's a thing. It has no sentience and can do nothing. It doesn't chase people down and jump into their blood stream. They put it there. They make the decision. It is ultimately their own fault, and I'm not putting them down or saying they get what they deserve because many do not deserve that outcome for a series of bad choices which hurt mainly themselves. Addiction makes them continue to use it and that is simply a function of the brain that takes away a whole lot of self control. Heroin is bad to do, yes. However it is neither good nor bad in and of itself. Actually heroin is a medication and it has medical use in other countries and does do a whole lot of good for people who are in severe pain that other drugs can't control. It's just not legal here. That's like saying that Oxycontin is evil and should shoulder the blame for the rash of deaths associated with it when folks realized that it was a lot of fun to snort and shoot but not that much fun to swallow whole.

We agree that doing heroin is a bad choice and will most likely lead to a bad outcome. What I'm trying to figure out is why you seem to be hell bent on twisting everyone else's words so that you will reign supreme as sovereign of outrage and righteous indignation against smack while trying to imply that everyone else is just fine with it. I mean whats going on? If you want to make it out that you are the big dog on this one, go ahead I'm fine with it, but for god's sakes please be consistent about what you accuse everybody else in the thread of doing and when you switch to a brand new accusation that you have just come up with, please inform us of what it is that we are so obviously doing because I don't have a clue.

You can have this though. You need it. You win. I'll happily admit to whatever you want to say I'm doing and go on to another thread. It doesn't matter to me. It's too difficult to try and follow this reasoning of yours anyway. I can see that no matter what I say you are going to accuse me of lying about something so ok. I'm lying. I'm not even OOM. You probably already knew that though. I should go read the rest of the posts and then get back to my presidential campaign and raising the race horses cause that's my secret identity.

Whatever lol.

And to the rest of ya'll, I still say don't do heroin.

Unless of course the OP say's I don't say that. Then I don't.

Heroin Strategy Used by Controllers and the culture of child abuse -

Create the "Heroin Superstar" with a sob story appealing to those who have gone through difficult circumstances in life, the neglected and the abused.
Prop them up for the world to see
Make sure their image is everywhere - market them to young people because they are the ones who are easiest to control.
A windfall profit for drug dealers and their suppliers, aka cartels.
Lie about the drug and it's destructive effects, particularly concerning the mind. It twists it and can be non reversible with dire changes in the personality and a certain gullibility. Can create a constant state of paranoia and depression as well.
A generation of kids addicted to heroin.


Heroin is pretty much a controller drug and it's promoted only when the hopes are it will control another in some way, usually to obtain money from them, due to it's highly addictive nature and what it does to the mind, rendering the user physically and mentally incapable of resisting those who supply it.

Just letting everyone know what's really going on right under their noses concerning this vicious drug. Do not believe this drug is any good to anyone. It never is. No matter what kind of crap is promoted, about how it comforts or stops pain, these are complete and utter lies. It physically paralyzes you, destroys your mind then it kills you.

I know, let's legalize drugs! That way no one gets hurt, no one O.D.'s, no families are destroyed, no neighborhoods are blighted. By the way, I'm being sarcastic.

Oddly enough none of that was my experience or any of the hardhitters I know.

But, you know much much more about heroin than I do. I'm sure.