American Racism in the ‘White Frame’
28 Jul 2015, 11:30 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's going to have to happen for black Americans to "catch up" is a few generations of black wealth building, creating legacies, inheritances and creating structures of networking that are similar to what whites Americans have created over time.
As a group, they will never catch up.
The education statistics for blacks are horrific. Lucky if half of them graduate high school. A few months ago I saw a southern school administrator pleading on tv and warning "these black kids will grow up and then what".
Easier for society to immigrate smart people from around the world and give THOSE PEOPLE the high paying jobs.
The governor of Michigan proposed immigrating 50,000 people with graduate degrees into Detroit as a solution for Detroit.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index ... igrat.html
28 Jul 2015, 11:39 pm
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's not just a matter of people being dickbags. According to sociologist, who has done a lot of work and study in this field, Joe Feagin, it's a matter of 80% black history in the US has been either under slavery or Jim Crow type segregation and this has kept blacks from generating their own wealth they can hand down to their children which is what whites have done. He goes even further to say whites have money because of policies concerning blacks. It put them at an unfair advantage and they profited off black labor. It has kept them from developing the same systems whites have, which enable ease finding good jobs which adds to prosperity, along with inheritances from generations of wealth building. Blacks have been deprived of this in America. So it's not just, blacks can't find a job so let's solve this with affirmative action. It's much worse that that, according to this sociologist.
Isn't it more that my grandparents benefitted and their grandparents suffered?
What I'm getting at is generational poverty being entirely different from situational poverty.
I have advantages because my father was a full tenured professor at a top school with a teaching career spanning 5 decades. He had advantages because his father was a circuit court judge. And so on.
If your grandpa was broke, and your dad was broke, chances are good that you're broke too.
I didn't do any of that jim crow s**t. Frankly, neither did my forefathers. Actually, on my mother's side, way back in the 1700's, in devonshire, there's a moorish gentleman who early in the written record appears to be at least an indentured servant and possibly a full-on slave, and then in later parts of the written record is married to someone and has taken the family name. And then even later is apparently one of the revered patriarchs of the family. But that doesn't have anything to do with the tradition of slavery in the american south.
I accept that the system that was in place when great-great granddad got here gave him benefits that were wrought in part on the backs of black people.
And what sociologists, SJWs, and the like are arguing is that i benefit indirectly from the system that modern american black people are still indirectly harmed by.
And yeah, in parts of the country, it's still direct.
Affirmative action is one way of trying to chip away at that.
So is the united negro college fund. It turns out that the people you knew in college are some of your best business contacts.
So is forcing banks to correct racially biased patterns in lending even if they never actually intended for there to be bias. There are banks in this country where a minority borrower with good credit gets a shittier loan than a white borrower with the same credit. It's easy to prove with simple math. There have also been, and probably still are, banks where a minority borrower with good credit gets a shittier loan on average than a white borrower with poor credit on average. I don't even care to point fingers at loan officers and mortgage brokers and call them racists, so long as they figure out how to stop doing it.
There are a lot of ways of chipping away at it. Teaching your own kids not to be dickbags about what position anybody "ought" to have in the world is one of 'em.
Because maybe then affirmative action will be superfluous.
I doubt that there is a direct, immediate way of solving the problem. Most people have become who they're gonna be by the time they are 25. Some people will tell you that a mother can tell by the time they are 2.
There's fuckall any of us can do to change the hearts and minds of outgoing generations.
There's plenty we can do to try and point incoming generations in the right direction. And some of them will still be dickbags.
28 Jul 2015, 11:59 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's going to have to happen for black Americans to "catch up" is a few generations of black wealth building, creating legacies, inheritances and creating structures of networking that are similar to what whites Americans have created over time.
As a group, they will never catch up.
The education statistics for blacks are horrific. Lucky if half of them graduate high school. A few months ago I saw a southern school administrator pleading on tv and warning "these black kids will grow up and then what".
Easier for society to immigrate smart people from around the world and give THOSE PEOPLE the high paying jobs.
The governor of Michigan proposed immigrating 50,000 people with graduate degrees into Detroit as a solution for Detroit.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index ... igrat.html[/quote]
Don't be so sure they will never catch up. It's easy to say that now but blacks having full rights, same is whites, without being segregated, is pretty much still in it's infancy.
30 Jul 2015, 2:52 pm
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's not just a matter of people being dickbags. According to sociologist, who has done a lot of work and study in this field, Joe Feagin, it's a matter of 80% black history in the US has been either under slavery or Jim Crow type segregation and this has kept blacks from generating their own wealth they can hand down to their children which is what whites have done. He goes even further to say whites have money because of policies concerning blacks. It put them at an unfair advantage and they profited off black labor. It has kept them from developing the same systems whites have, which enable ease finding good jobs which adds to prosperity, along with inheritances from generations of wealth building. Blacks have been deprived of this in America. So it's not just, blacks can't find a job so let's solve this with affirmative action. It's much worse that that, according to this sociologist.
Isn't it more that my grandparents benefitted and their grandparents suffered?
What I'm getting at is generational poverty being entirely different from situational poverty.
I have advantages because my father was a full tenured professor at a top school with a teaching career spanning 5 decades. He had advantages because his father was a circuit court judge. And so on.
If your grandpa was broke, and your dad was broke, chances are good that you're broke too.
I didn't do any of that jim crow s**t. Frankly, neither did my forefathers. Actually, on my mother's side, way back in the 1700's, in devonshire, there's a moorish gentleman who early in the written record appears to be at least an indentured servant and possibly a full-on slave, and then in later parts of the written record is married to someone and has taken the family name. And then even later is apparently one of the revered patriarchs of the family. But that doesn't have anything to do with the tradition of slavery in the american south.
I accept that the system that was in place when great-great granddad got here gave him benefits that were wrought in part on the backs of black people.
And what sociologists, SJWs, and the like are arguing is that i benefit indirectly from the system that modern american black people are still indirectly harmed by.
And yeah, in parts of the country, it's still direct.
Affirmative action is one way of trying to chip away at that.
So is the united negro college fund. It turns out that the people you knew in college are some of your best business contacts.
So is forcing banks to correct racially biased patterns in lending even if they never actually intended for there to be bias. There are banks in this country where a minority borrower with good credit gets a shittier loan than a white borrower with the same credit. It's easy to prove with simple math. There have also been, and probably still are, banks where a minority borrower with good credit gets a shittier loan on average than a white borrower with poor credit on average. I don't even care to point fingers at loan officers and mortgage brokers and call them racists, so long as they figure out how to stop doing it.
There are a lot of ways of chipping away at it. Teaching your own kids not to be dickbags about what position anybody "ought" to have in the world is one of 'em.
Because maybe then affirmative action will be superfluous.
I doubt that there is a direct, immediate way of solving the problem. Most people have become who they're gonna be by the time they are 25. Some people will tell you that a mother can tell by the time they are 2.
There's fuckall any of us can do to change the hearts and minds of outgoing generations.
There's plenty we can do to try and point incoming generations in the right direction. And some of them will still be dickbags.
Yours is a well thought out answer and it touches on many of the underlying issues.
30 Jul 2015, 9:55 pm
Quote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's going to have to happen for black Americans to "catch up" is a few generations of black wealth building, creating legacies, inheritances and creating structures of networking that are similar to what whites Americans have created over time.
As a group, they will never catch up.
The education statistics for blacks are horrific. Lucky if half of them graduate high school. A few months ago I saw a southern school administrator pleading on tv and warning "these black kids will grow up and then what".
Easier for society to immigrate smart people from around the world and give THOSE PEOPLE the high paying jobs.
The governor of Michigan proposed immigrating 50,000 people with graduate degrees into Detroit as a solution for Detroit.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index ... igrat.html
Don't be so sure they will never catch up. It's easy to say that now but blacks having full rights, same is whites, without being segregated, is pretty much still in it's infancy.
A lot of these problems could be addressed by reforming how public schools are funded.
This is going to sound unamerican but hear me out - we aren't the best at everything.
Maybe rich kids shouldn't have a better school just because their parents pay more in taxes.
Maybe rich people shouldn't be able to give money to their favorite public school rather than the whole system.
Maybe if rich people want to enrich a specific school it should have to be a private school.
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