"Schizotypal Autism" or Mendelsohnn's Syndrome, Welcome !

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Hi all,

just recently got diagnosed as schizotypal.

It's been strange and hard, accepting the diagnosis.
I'm still not certain if it's totally correct.
I do identify with many symptoms of schizotypalism, which can't be explained with ASD.

I don't think I have "magial thinking", sometimes I do make thought associations which are untrue, but I figure that stuff out later, and no harm done. (Unless you're around neurotypical people, then all of a sudden it's the "end of the world" and they have to detain you and shoot you to make everything "normal" again. , and THEY're telling US that they're the normal ones ! !! At least schizo's or schizotypals don't marginalize, ostracize, relegate, criminalize, brutalize, and murder people they don't understand, or people who think differently than they do; Oh no, we leave that up to the "normal people". This planet is a never-ending twilight zone episode).

In any event,
where you diagnosed with schizotypalism ?
If so I'd like to hear from you !
Like to see what symptoms you have, and which symptoms you have that are similar to autism,
and so much more. Even if you just have a cool story to tell.

Welcome. From what I've gathered, schizotypal autism is just autism. According to Wikipedia it's only recognized in a couple countries (russia and finland). It's definitely not in the DSM.

I don't see how magical thinking couldn't be present in someone with autism.

Autism is a relatively recent diagnosis, first established in the 1940s. But people with autism have always existed.

Originally autism was misdiagnosed as psychosis, childhood psychosis, schizoid personality disorder, and "childhood schizophrenia." Doctors used these terms because they mistakenly believed that the children's odd behaviors were caused by delusions, when in reality this was not the case.

Autism was still considered by many to be a form of childhood schizophrenia / psychosis for a while, even after Leo Kanner first wrote about "autism" in 1943. In fact Leo Kanner, actually gave in to those who believed it was a schizophrenia and he ended up speaking about autism at schizophrenia conferences.

Hans Asperger actually published a paper in 1944 detailing the spectrum diagnosis we use today but his paper was forgotten until it was rediscovered decades later.

However, I'm not familiar with schizotypal autism being given as a modern diagnosis. Maybe it's a remnant of the historical misclassification of autism as a schizotypal disorder.

Maybe this is a coincidence but one of the terms I mentioned, "schizoid personality disorder" was coined by a russian pyschiatrist, Grunia Sukhareva who specialized in "adolescent psychosis" although she was similarly misclassifying autistic people as schizophrenic (according to a book I have about autism called Neurotribes, she even "cautioned her colleagues that the term schizoid might lead to 'conceptual confusion and misinterpretation' if the two conditions turned out to be completely unrelated. Her concerns turned out to be well founded." )

This is just conjecture but perhaps doctors in those countries still haven't realized that she was actually describing autistic people. The language barrier can create a disconnect in the level of knowledge of doctors in different countries.

Thanks Alex,
very informative (unusual for this website),

My psychologist diagnosed me as "schizotypal" , technically speaking, not "schizotypal autism".
Though she's very kind (so far) and she said It's ok if I tell people that I have "autism" if it makes me feel more comfortable, because I have all the classic signs and symptoms.

Being an ashkenazi jewish polish/russian type, it stands to reason Schizotypal Autism or Mendelsohnn's Syndrome isn't diagnosed much in the West or in America. So most doctors don't even know what they're looking at.

Alex (or anyone else who knows), is my type of schizotypalism (with myriad ASD symptoms) really just another form of autism ? on the AS (autism Spectrum) ?

I'd rather be called autistic than schizo, to be honest with you.
And again honestly, i think I have much more in common with autistics than schizotypies.

In your opinion is "schizotypal autism" or (same) "Mendelsohnn's Syndrome" a real condition ???
And do you personally consider it to be part of the Austim Spectrum ?

I was diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder along with aspergers, adhd & ld. Since then different doctors have given slight variations to that diagnosis such as schizophrenia, schizoaffective, psychosis nos, along with various autism spectrum disorders. Most the doctors Ive seen for mental health have diagnosed me with co-morbid asd and schizo disorders, but where ever I am on those spectrums seems to vary in opinion. Some people do get misdiagnosed, but with co occuring conditions the symptoms cannot be better explained by the other disorder. The schiz symptoms I've had do not seem typical for someone who just has autism. Ive been to real life autism and schizophrenia support groups and dont quite fit either one but have met a few people online with similar diagnosis.
"Schizotypal autism" is simply a dual diagnosis of schizotypy and autism. The wiki page seems a bit inaccurate in saying there are only about 100 people with it. I think it is refering to people who were diagnosed with "mendelsohnns" which isnt a term that is normally used.
Much research has suggested that autism and schizophrenia are genetically linked, and even if they are not assuming each disorder were to be 1 in 100, that would estimate the chances of having both to be 1 in 10,000.

I think it's probably a somewhat fringe interpretation arisen from some diagnosticians and researchers beginning to understand autism spectrum visual thinking as a whole, and perhaps confusing the hallucinatory with the pseudohallucinatory.

_________________
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-Georges Lemaitre
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-Gem Tos

If, as your doctor stated, you "have all the classic signs and symptoms" of autism, doesn't that mean you have autism? Autism doesn't have a biomarker (there's no blood test); it's diagnosed by determining if one displays the symptoms.

Right Alex,

That's what I thought. But you never can tell how a psychologist will take your word for what symptoms you have and what the interpretation of said symptoms will be. Deep down I think I am on the Autism Spectrum. And maybe some schizotypy, but the source for that is from the f****d up family and environment I was forced to grow up in. Pardon my Spanish. It seems to be getting worse, because of all the pressures and stress I have on me now. Lack of money, you know the deal. It's frightening because one symptom is that I hear music when I listen to noise, like from a fan, or from an AC unit, or any other type of unusual noise. What's freaky is that it turns into like a symphony of violins. I hear violins I hope this symptom is temporary. The stress of being forced to move (again !) probably caused it.

My psychologist said she'd get me my diagnosis on paper as per her word. ( I asked her to put it on paper ).
However it's been 2 weeks and she hasn't emailed me the official diagnosis. I called her office and left her a message.
Why do supposedly "professional" people all of a sudden act skittish like this ? It's like she's turned into a spineless rat (I know rats have spines ) and now is yellow-bellied about giving me my diagnosis in black & white.
Rich professionals are some of the most spineless people I know. I should know, my father is one of these types.

Oh, and one more thing Alex.
I've researched "magical thinking" online and I still don't "get" what it is supposed to be.
I mean, how is that type of thinking any different than the average person who believes in things that are not true, magical relationships between things, and superstitions ?

If you ask me, using the term "magical thinking" to diagnose ppl with, is magical thinking.

So, can you tell me perhaps what I'm missing here ?
What exactly (and scientifically) is magical thinking ?

Hi Cubeship,

nice name.

glad I'm not alone in this. (i suspected I'm not alone in this, I'm old enough to know every symptom I might have is really nothing new under the sun, though it doesn't make experiencing it any easier).

What was scary to me was that I actually could hear melodies, like some weird intelligence composed it.
It wa sn't a regular melody either. It's almost as if it was composed by an advanced extra-terrestrial.
Many harmonics, and a clear, and very interesting melody.

What comes to mind for me is that in the last year I discovered through research and just plain personal interest on my part, that there is an interesting phenomenon happening here in the USA and around the world, where people go missing in remote areas, in huge national parks, in the mountains, other remote places, you get the idea. Weird thing is these people either inexplicably go completely missing, or strange parts of these people are found miles away from where they disappeared, and there's no tracks, no footprints, nothing. Some of these people, always children for some reason are found 10 - 20 miles away, and they're alive, sitting in a frozen water-stream (usually), and they can't vocalize what happened to them, because of how young they are.

What's been remarked on , concerning this subject is that an alarming number of these disappeared people have been diagnosed with schizophrenia or autism. Stands to reason. Whoever or whatever is doing this doesn't want people to speak, or is somehow experimenting on these types. Possibly, schizophrenics and autistics (at least in their cases) were engineered that way, so that these entities could control them far easier, and leave little trail evidence.

If you're interested in this subject you can check it out on youtube,
"Missing 411, David Paulides".

And just note, whether or not I'm "crazy" or not for talking about this non-mainstream subject, or even believing in it, has no bearing on the factual, physical phenomenon. This is real, and it's happening all around us, unfortunately. And nobody has a clue who or what is doing it. Not even the National Park service that sees over these areas. In fact I think they know (at least at the top ranks in the organization) what's happening, but they're brains are locked down with cognitive-disonance, and so they just push the evidence , the files, and the subject comfortably under the rug, so they won't have any problems.

Thanks for raising the topic. I'm autistic - couldn't speak until 4 - and have split brain due to corpus callosar dysgenesis. And cerebellar dysplasia which affects my senses and motor skills. I knew these but just recently got a diagnosis of schizotypal. At first it really roasted my nut to find out I have another diagnosis late in life. More challenges in addition to all those I already face with autism. I was pissed and couldn't admit the paranoia and magical thinking. Those labels were my problem - my "magical thinking" was how I kept my motivation and faith going. And I've been hurt a lot - so it's unclear to me that my paranoia is a completely bad thing. Here's how I distinguish my schiz from my autie symptoms: my autie inability to follow social interactions well makes me think carefully when accepting invitations and I try to plan for escape routes if I get too overwhelmed by my senses or by so much conversation - that's the autism. When I walk out to water my lawn and I see my neighbor standing out there already and I'm hit with a wave of dread of talking to this guy, to *any* person, that is so strong I turn around and go back inside quickly, so he doesn't see me, and then wait an hour for him to be gone before peeking again to be sure noone else is around before I start the water hose... I guess that sounds funny to me, healthy to laugh at yourself, but actually it is f*****g painful and I've been this way my whole life. I'd quit trying except for commitments I've made in my life to myself and others.

Thanks EyeDash,

I totally understand about the watering the lawn situation.
I don't like to go outside when other people are there either.
I don't like being stared at and scrutinized, especially by strangers.

The "roasted my nut" phrase was funny.
It's hard for me still, to accept this diagnosis.
I'm a bit fearful of the consequences and loss of human rights that may come with it.
Like if a bad situation occurs, guess who's fault it's automatically going to be ?
That's right, the "crazy guy" 's fault.
But that's the thing. I'm not crazy. I'm very rational and peaceful.
Except when people harass and taunt me. Seems to be a neurotypical national passtime.
Don't want to get too negative here. I need to stay in optimism and good feelings.
Kinda struggling economically right now and I don't need more unnecessary problems.

Best wishes to you
Hope you feel better soon

Thanks for your kind wishes. I understand about the fear of being labeled or stereotyped or having rights taken away or restricted out of others' ignorance. Its not even an irrational fear - people often don't understand mental disorders and leap to ridiculous conclusions. I've been peaceful and nonviolent - and tortured as f**k inside with the cPTSD and fearful loneliness. My older brother was fully schizophrenic and not autistic and he got a lot worse in his 50s. He was 11 years older than me and I still love and idolize him although he passed away over a decade ago. However he seriously abused me, like almost suffocating me one time by zipping closed the bag that was for my dad's Navy suits while I was playing inside it when I was 3. I was nonverbal and the trauma got burned into my head and I feared him after that, that he would go wild or get violent. That and my mom's visits to the mental ward in the Navy hospital gave me some strong fears of mental illness. I've feared going mentally I'll like my brother my life long. The movie 'Donnie Darko' really triggered something in me... But I've never been violent, acted out, hurt others, or got into legal trouble. It was the other way around - i was physically abused for years by an ex-wife. In fact I've clung to a super- orthodox lifestyle because I fear being identified as some sort of dangerous person. I'm about to retire after 38 years of being a law-abiding professional. But to be honest, I do have some extreme fear reactions that others would label 'crazy'. My PTSD is labeled 'extreme' and I know how it can affect one's thoughts and feelings. But the difference is when I get off-the-charts scared of someone or some situation, then I calm myself by reading or taking a nap with my cats, rather than doing something destructive. I wish the general public wasn't so ignorant about autism, schizophrenia, etc. I'd be happy to show them I'm a considerate and friendly person.

I wonder if "Schizotypal autism" equates MCDD, Multiple complex developmental disorder, which is not listed in the DSM, but especially in the Netherlands and Belgium it gets some sort of recognition, but is diagnosed simply as ASD.

Remember that Autism used to be called childhood schizophrenia. The reason for this was that although they are 2 separate diagnoses, they shared a lot of the negative symptoms and it was difficult to distinguish between them at that time. So schizotypal autism is simple a very old fashioned term not generally used by most of the profession any more. Trust me, there is a world of difference between ASD and Schizophrenia.

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ASD, ADHD-PI, PTSD , BI-Polar 2

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Imagine my therapist's embarrassment when it turned out they really were after me.