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AspieOtaku
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12 Nov 2015, 12:30 am

I just wonder with the Islamists and some mebers supporting Sharia law are suicide bombings as a means of being rewarded 72 virgins in the name of allah justified since there are so many Infedels? I am an infedel are you ging to suicide bomb my house?


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izzeme
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12 Nov 2015, 5:07 am

As far as i know, suicide is forbidden by the Qu'ran (and any other holy book, for that matter).

The 72 virgins are a reward for dying a martyr, either in combat or while defending your faith verbally, however, suiciding renders any rewards you are awarded due to being a martyr null and void.

It is quite commonly known that IS (and related groups) are not 'true' muslims, just as the KKK members weren't 'true' christians either



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12 Nov 2015, 9:10 am

I don't think most of these people believe they will be made love to by 72 virgins.

I feel most of these people feel alienated by the world around them, and want to end it all.

These people need a reason to live.



naturalplastic
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12 Nov 2015, 9:30 am

^
Thats a good point.

Many suicide bombers in that part of the World would be Columbine-type shooters if they lived in the West.



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12 Nov 2015, 9:39 am

I'm just wondering where god is getting all these virgins from...

No more 'justified' than kamikaze pilots anyway.



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12 Nov 2015, 1:35 pm

Is it because they are Muslims that they are suicide bombers, or is it their religion nothing to do with it, but they are being repressed, occupied, invaded by a foreign aggressive power, and that's their only way of fighting back? Maybe they are not doing it for their own reward, but to make a better future for their fellow man?
Just like the 180 German suicide pilots of World War 2 who volunteered to fly old ME109s into American bombers, sacrificing their single life in order to save the lives of scores of Women and Children who were about to be bombed.



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12 Nov 2015, 7:17 pm

Anytime I see '72 virgins' I have to do a pretty hard face-palm.

Even if it were all true that they received 72 virgins for aggressively advancing the faith they wouldn't be getting it wet in heaven because the 'virgins' in question aren't humans. They aren't even goats. They're 5° sections of the sky. It's a figure of speech that you're freed from the weight of kismet.

How do I have any clue what I'm saying? 72 gets reused and reused ad nauseum in religious texts and it comes from what various ancient cultures believed about the sky. Do we believe it now? Perhaps not. Did the people writing these books even know it? Maybe yes, maybe no, depends on when they were written and how close they were to the hotbeds of philosophy like Alexandrian Egypt where the Ptolemies and various Greeks and Egyptians where sharing and merging philosophies.

Trying to get it on with those 72 virgins is an even more panoramic act than the proverbial 'throwing a hotdog down a hallway'. Better in that case perhaps to try a fatal viagra overdose.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 12 Nov 2015, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

0_equals_true
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12 Nov 2015, 7:22 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Even if it were all true that they received 72 virgins for aggressively advancing the faith they wouldn't be getting it wet in heaven because the 'virgins' in question aren't humans. They aren't even goats. They're 5° sections of the sky. It's a figure of speech that you're freed from the weight of kismet.


That your speculation too, the theology say they are beautiful and have translucent bodies and bones. Don't know about you but that doesn't warm my cockles.

The only credible alternative explanation is it is a mistranslation of grapes rather then virgins, however I'm not sure that is correct.



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Nov 2015, 7:25 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
That your speculation too, the theology say they are beautiful and have translucent bodies and bones. Don't know about you but that doesn't warm my cockles.


I should apologize - I edited in the middle paragraph after you responded.

It's not a speculation, some numbers like 12 or particularly 12 around one just have ubiquitous meanings.


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0_equals_true
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12 Nov 2015, 7:29 pm

Theological it is probably not sound, but it is not hard to take anything in the Quran and use it to justify almost anything like that.

However these modern tactic of suicide belt and road side bomb designs were actually copied from another terrorist group LITE better known as Tamil Tigers. They pioneered the asymmetric techniques that have been used by Al Qaeda, Hamas, Taliban etc. They are a Hindu group, in Sri Lanka.

They are also famous for global money laundering, extortion, etc.



0_equals_true
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12 Nov 2015, 7:30 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
It's not a speculation, some numbers like 12 or particularly 12 around one just have ubiquitous meanings.


I work from what is written not numerology.



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Nov 2015, 7:33 pm

What I'm talking about is culture. Ideas that get tossed around long after people forget whatever they might have originally meant. They very well could have been talking about shagging 72 virgins, they might have used that number just because they thought it sounded cool (holy number or whatever), that number just meant the sections of the sky.


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12 Nov 2015, 7:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What I'm talking about is culture. Ideas that get tossed around long after people forget whatever they might have originally meant. They very well could have been talking about shagging 72 virgins, they might have used that number just because they thought it sounded cool (holy number or whatever), that number just meant the sections of the sky.


Do you have evidence that this phrase existed outside of the Quran. Do you have evidence to back that up?



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Nov 2015, 7:50 pm

I'm not trying to beat my own drum here, I just feel like I need to convey a bit of a case here rather than make de facto statements.

To take a quick browse of Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

Claudius Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos was written in 2nd century CE, indicated to be drawn from Babylonian astrology. The texts of Judaism were assembled during the captivity. These were also the two most notable cultures in the Mediterranean to divide their months up into seven-day weeks.

It's all well and good if no one cares about astrology these days but strangely people are willing to read the bible, the quran, etc.. for historical and cultural perspective but there almost seems to be a certain assumption that astrology has nothing to do with it. Seems rather tha opposite - that astrology's the framework it's built out and abstracted from.

Heck, in most places outside of Catholic-reformed Brazil you have the days of the week named by deities related to the 'seven planets'. The relationships get smeared out and don't jump out in particularly obvious manners but what does come out is incredibly methodical. No conspiracy, just a layer of culture that people for whatever reason stopped researching or paying much attention to unless they had a particular interest in paganism or Hermetic thought.


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12 Nov 2015, 7:53 pm

suicide is strictly forbidden in Islam.... in Islam, those who committ suicide go to hell for eternity....

killing of non combatants is also forbidden....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... on_suicide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_m ... lian_areas



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12 Nov 2015, 7:55 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
I just wonder with the Islamists and some mebers supporting Sharia law are suicide bombings as a means of being rewarded 72 virgins in the name of allah justified since there are so many Infedels? I am an infedel are you ging to suicide bomb my house?

random killing of "infidels" is forbidden, in fact, killing of civilians is forbidden, and the only type of violence allowed in Islam is self-defense...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_m ... lian_areas