Sargon of Akkad Petition what you think?

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Sargon of Akkad is a popular YouTuber secularist, skeptic and critic of some popular movements. Although he can be highly critical, he is generally liked even by some of his opponents, and his livestreams are always interesting. He convinces people to go on who would not usually appear on these platforms.

He has started a petition to address the problems with "Social Justice" courses in universities.

https://www.change.org/p/universities-s ... iversities

I wondered what you though of the petition?

I'm a strong believer of being critical of everything. I can agree with the sentiment, if not the method.

I think the idea could do with some refinement. Yes, there is a problem with the quality of some courses in Universities and also some people are teaching questionable stuff in an environment which is hostile to criticism an scrutiny. The biggest problem being promoting ideas the undermine all of our freedoms. Definitely there are some academics and student bodies that don't deserve their position and maybe others who have been too pampered.

Maybe this petition is merely to draw attention to the issue. However I'm quite literal, so I'm going to take the words literally.

People are going to call me a fence sitter but I don't care, that is the sort of thing you would expect from SJWs. I'd want a better petition ideally.

The issue is most of the problem courses aren't actually called "social justice". The "suspend everything to figure it out" is a bit Trump like in approach. A more intelligent approach is needed. These types of courses are in all sort of faculties history, health, sports, sociology, psychology, arts and media, journalism, etc.

If anything it has been more the case that an innocuous subject gets hijacked by extreme or draconian views, or they try to push a curriculum across the board, in some cases as as a compulsory requirement. There are examples of how they have shaped departments into something other than what they started out as, even defying the relevance of subject within the faculty.

Also social issues should be discussed, but they need to be discussed openly with multiple positions and narratives. Rather then social theories being taught as truth. I think the petition fails to address this so it is destined to repeat.

I would say it it would bet better to urge universities to review all the courses they have to improve the the standard of learning in general, point out the real examples of activism being used to erode right and create division.

Activism istelf is not the problem, however SJWs have some questionable methods and objectives.

A lot of the people feel a need for control and they try to monopolise their platform to push a narrative. This has been in various ways:

- By exploiting social taboos/guilt and political correctness to create barriers to scrutiny.
- The most deplorable technique was misrepresenting mental illness and its treatment, to try and create reasons why certain subjects couldn't be discussed openly, especially through certain weaponised phrases like 'trigger warnings' Then using sensitivity agendas as a form of re-education.
- Using the the old "you couldn't possibly understand" / "my opinion is more important due to my stature" and privilege based pigeon holing, whilst claiming to be intersectional.
- The usual protest techniques of disruption causing financial pressure, and embarrassment. It also helps if the demands can't actually be met so there is maximum effect.

The best way to counter this is to create a more open and transparent learning environment, not fall for the above techniques and make sure there is a marketplace of ideas.

Even a report into extremism in universities and the UK government own 'prevent' program said that universities that were scared of offending certain groups were failing to tackle extremism, and those that were vulnerable to indoctrination, weren't getting exposure to counter narratives. This is why I'm not big on "no platforming".

Yes some course and people need to go and some courses, however how this is decided is important. I'm reluctant to suspend everything with a social justice label even if that may be tempting.

What do employers want ?

These people want to get jobs and should know the latest stuff.

Where I work, employees are told that any racism, sexism, anti-LGBT speech (and few other isms) is grounds for employment termination.

The HR people should be trained on the latest stuff to know when to terminate employees for "hurtful speech".

For some good educational background here's the Nobel laureate economist F.A. Hayek talking about the concept of "social justice":



Another copy of the same video is available at the Mises Instutute:
https://mises.org/blog/hayek-social-jus ... conception

Where there was a feminist that tried to get Phil Mason fired becuase she didn't understand what he was saying about WII, and was looking for ammunition due to his criticism. Fortunately it totally backfired on her.

For some simply discussing certain subjects is so taboo, they don't really care about the argument and if it is a serious proposition or a hypothetical based of the theory of ethics. Deductive reasoning, devils advocate has gone out of the window.

Personally what I think would help is making formal debating a mainstay in schools, especially were you the side you defend is chosen at random.

People have become scared of actually thinking about certain things as an academic exercise.

In addition to that a focus on scientific literacy and method.

That is interesting but I was asking about what you thought about the petition as it is worded, and how this problem could be addressed.

Mixed feelings, but ultimately, if there wasn't the barrier of having to give up your personal details to the site, which I don't want to do, I would sign it. I would also have posted about it here if I was going to sign it, since there is a strong anti-SJW feeling here, but it seems rich trying to get people to sign something I'm not going to sign myself. Nice to see it still going strong though.

As I understand, most of the universities in the US are self governing and largely independent except maybe State Universities. There are some national standards perhaps.

So really change.org is merely a focal point. The petition could be anywhere. There is no threshold where anything has to be done as far as I'm aware.

It never ceases to amaze (or disappoint?) me that people even bother to watch all these YouTube political commentators whining about petty first world problems....

Rather silly response.

First world problems like basic rights, and the principle of rights. Having intelligent discussion about issues that affect all of us. Most of these guys are criticising first world problem like being "offended", and needing to have whims accommodated.

For one there people reacted to activists, that had sprung up. What does it matter what the platform is? Take your pick.

One of the criticisms of the activists in questioned, is hypocrisy when I comes to viewing other cultures in the developing world. For instance the rights of women. What they expect here in the West and what they appease.

You won't think it petty if it ever touches you or someone you care about.

It's a common observation that the purpose of the Shock Jock's seems to be in convincing the working class to vote against its interests. The most obvious method is by bypassing our logic circuits by hijacking our stress responses.

What has that got to do with anything?

As far as I'm aware Sargon is more centrist. Those commenting come from a broad range of views from libertarian, to progressive, to conservative, to socialist.

If you don't know about something don't assume you know. Look into it first.

Also how is preserving basic rights and encouraging higher standards in university have to do with convincing working classes to vote against their interests.

The university protests are actually distracting from genuine concerns like approach to policing.

Unless he's referring to the SJWs?

I thought a shock jock was a radio presenter.

Yes. Sargon doesn't fit the bill though. So I just wondered if that's not what he's referring to. As the description fits the SJWs. Maybe it's more a general comment about YouTube commentators.

Funny I'd see this. Was just watching this vid earlier today: