Aspie/aspie (non)dating

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I meet someone occasionally in a social context who I think is Aspie or neurodiverse in some way, only we never actually seem to get the courage to talk much: I tend to rely on others to start conversations but he wants me to do so, so I panic and he goes off and talks to someone else. The oftener we are in the same place without talking, the more our anxieties seem to bounce off each other and repel the other person.

It is possible that we might meet again in a social way but it's always among other people in a small space and I can't see either of us being less anxious, and that's if he hasn't dismissed me by now. Does common sense dictate that I should give up? I don't know what to do. I just want to have a normal conversation and find out what he's like, but it seems the hardest thing in the world right now.

Last edited by E V Tooms on 27 May 2016, 8:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.

This sounds like my life.

I think you should talk to him face to face and see how it goes. Talk about anything and just see if he looks pleased that you are talking to him.

If that doesn't work then maybe move on, bit don't give up without at least trying to talk to him.

Thank you. I suppose there's nothing else to do, but when the only opportunity I have to talk to him in under such anxiety-inducing circumstances, I just feel like I'm setting myself up to fail again and again. It's hard to accept that I can't control the situation but then take control of it when I need to. Events just run away from me too quickly.

Yeah I hear you. I keep seeing the guy I like under similar circumstances. But I've had to force myself through the awkwardness and just talk to him and he has been friendly. I even managed to work up the courage to invite him somewhere else with a couple of other people so we could spend some more time together and talk.

It wasn't so bad once we got talking. It's still awkward because I keep seeing him when family are around and I think they are keen on us getting together and they keep giving me these big smiles. Which makes it more awkward to talk to him when I know they are around. More presure. I don't even know if he just likes me as a friend so having other people being too enthusiastic is not helping.

Talk is overrated. Also, I see no reason why you should get anxious about it. Observing each others, rather than talking, is the natural neurodiverse process of getting to know each others. It works well if you use it in a reasonable way.

Rdos do you know what it's like to have feelings for someone, but you don't know if you should move on or not because they seem to like you back, but you can't tell because they don't talk to you. That lack of communication makes it seem like they don't want to be around you or spend time with you or take things further.

It hurts.

What if he thinks she's not interested even though she is, and he moves on? Why waste an opportunity that can easily be take due to "talk being overrated" most people don't work that way.

Sure I do. The way to deal with this is to stop being so critical and assuming verbal communication is a must. Just use statistics for everything: If it is more likely that somebody has mutual feelings for you than not, just decide they have and then stop thinking about the alternatives.

How else do you think I can manage to keep up the observation game with girls for years without verbal conversation? You should practise it.

Besides, the proof that they are interested is that they will continue to participate in the game.



Only if you think too much.



In my experience, they won't move on because the observation game is highly addictive. If they move on, they will do so very quickly because they want to get to know you with conversation.

Besides, that most people don't work that way is a plus because it acts as a good filter. We all need filters for potential partners, and this is a much better filter than matching social status, social group belongings and interests.

But that's really boring for those of us who want a partner who will interact with us. I guess it is a good filter. If a bloke does that to me, I move on because I don't want to be stuck with a boring guy who won't talk to me.

Fine, that's your preference. I find endless talking extremely boring (and exhausting), so I won't put up with a partner like that.

Thanks, hurtloam and rdos, for your responses, which have given me two very helpful perspectives. I am impressed at how you both identified the issue so accurately given that I described it in such broad terms. Writing it down has helped too.

The anxiety comes down to two major factors:
1. Lack of information - i.e. inability to read the other person's signals and body language due to my own incapacity and the other person's ambivalence. This is unexpected and even frightening, because most people will launch into some kind of social behaviour to compensate for my social awkwardness.
2. Lack of control. This leads on from the lack of information. Since a large part of how we process the world is through solid data, the absence of this causes panic.

It's like a fear of flying. It's not the actual danger, it is the fact that we are stuck, utterly powerless, in this metal frame. However, many people find their fear diminishes once they know more about the technical details of flying and what exactly would have to go wrong for a serious incident to occur. (Not the case for me, however: the lack of control is too much for me.)

While I personally wouldn't want to maintain a distance for too long, I think you're right, rdos, that it serves its purpose in people who get to know other people by information gathering over time rather than by conversation. As you also mention, it is a good filter. With someone I knew previously, it was probably a good thing that I used it as he turned out to be a narcissist. (I should note here that my anxiety was so bad around him that it make me sick.) I don't think that's the case here, but I definitely need more information, for example, is he in fact ND or is he deeply insecure, has other issues, etc.

Sorry if this is muddled as I didn't sleep well last night.

That's correct. It's also a matter of how you process the information you have, and that's also the solution to how to better handle these kinds of situations. Much of that goes back to cultural expectations like "guys that don't make contact are not interested", and "romance starts with dating and conversation". If that is not your preferences, you can learn to ignore those and apply different standards instead.

Much like hurtloam I've been there and it sucks. In this situation you may either have to hope he talks to you or build up the courage to talk to him. Sometimes you have to try and suck it up and go for it.

I used to practice what I was going to say so I didn't have to think to much when it came t the situation. Once I thought to much I would panic and either stutter or not speak at all.

Maybe practising what you could say would help you talk to him?

Yes, sometimes the girl taking the initiative when the shy guy can't make it possible to do things the culturally accepted way with conversation and dating. Still, it's not the natural way. In the natural process, the shy guy will make contact with the girl once he knows her well enough.

So if the girl is desperate about it, she could try making conversation herself, no matter how awkward it feels. It probably works most of the time.

I don't think that's natural for everyone. I've always assumed that women will initiate when they're interested just as a man would. Only over time, from hearing others's opinions and from my own dating, have I learned that what's considered natural to most or considered the social norm is men initiating. I find this annoying because while I will initiate with people, and will probably be the one to choose where we go on the earliest dates unless I specifically ask for a suggestion, at a certain point I would like the other person to suggest a date because to me it shows they are interested and have imagination. They may do this, but they may not. And if I wait for that, I realize that they may think I'm no longer interested since I'm waiting for them to contact me, so then what seems to have been working just peters out. Of course, if I'm doing all of that planning then I'm probably going to lose interest in the person anyway, but hopefully you get my point.

You might think that she would, and especially based on stories by female NDs about doing that. Still, I think most of them have managed to get over a huge awkwardness before they did it, which makes it unnatural.



Right, which is part of observation, and coming off as suitable partners. In my experience, the observation game typically failed for me because the girl assumed the guy does everything, so I will not get the information about her that I want before making contact. Instead, the whole thing just drags on and in the end fails because nothing happens. So it's a big mistake to assume the observation game is just something passive. It's not, and both people need to do their best to show off their qualities.

Indeed, but there is also a grain of truth to the notion that men who don't initiate aren't interested: some give off mixed signals as a form of control. This will generally only tend to reel in vulnerable people. Anyone whose intentions are a bit obscure will automatically add to my anxiety because I was fooled in the past by a disordered person who was good at appearing socially awkward. In his case, I couldn't read him because he didn't want me to.

I think part of the problem is the somewhat unnatural environment, which also adds to my anxiety because I'm only (somewhat) comfortable talking to people in a familiar environment. Although I met him somewhere relevant to my special interest (so we should have something to talk about) at the moment we only meet at 'event' type scenarios at which you circulate with your glass of wine, so doing the social dance (badly) is almost inescapable. I would never normally go to these and only do so at because it's the only way to meet him right now.

I hope it doesn't seem as if I'm rejecting anyone's suggestions.