Difficulty/challenge in games: What do you think?

Post Reply New Topic

i think that latter point ties into the general downward trend in game difficulty. (with exceptions of course, there's always going to be exceptions)

game companies are trying to reach out to demographics besides just "gamers", or people who have been playing games for many years and spend much of their time on them...turns out these other people aren't as skilled, and so the difficulty is toned down to be able to appeal to the point where they can have their money. might be what's happening.

or...we are all just getting worse at games!

If a game does not challenge me I can't play it. My favourite game series of all time is Dynasty Warriors and the spin offs that have spawned from it, but the games are so dumbed down, and getting more dumbed down unfortunately, that I can't enjoy them properly. I've picked up some of the older PS3 generation games as they've gotten really, really cheap, but with the exception of Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3, which has really aggressive AI, they're just no challenge. Oh and there's Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce too. But that's somewhat different to a "normal" Warriors game.

It's awful when I master a great game, as doing so basically ends my ability to enjoy that game. Games with tons of difficulty levels are usually the best, though not always, many of the Warriors games have lots of difficulty levels, but they don't improve the AI so it doesn't change anything. Apart from perhaps that you lose because your army loses just because you can't put out enough DPS to turn the battle around, not because the enemies are any kind of a threat to you. DW8 has the dumbest AI of any Warriors game so far, and the most overpowered player characters of any Warriors game so far. This direction they're going in makes no sense to me. Anyone and their dog can beat these games, it's not as if people are struggling with them. Even if they were, you just need a difficulty level that literally anyone can beat. They showed such promise from DW2 to DW4XL. The AI was competant though simple for DW2 and improved a bit for DW3. Then they took a step back for 4, but rectified it with DW4XL, where before in DW2 and 3, the AI was aggressive, it was simple minded and just came straight on, for 4XL they had playable characters actually doing intelligent things like jumping over you to attack you from behind or skirting round you while you were tied up with other troops, or standing over you if you were down and swiping the air so you'd stand up straight into another combo, and if you were blocking they'd bust out their guard break attacks or unblockable attacks if they had any. And there were several AI scripts for the playable characters that were tailored for them to use their movesets better. So characters with ranged attacks would hang back and spam them and characters with long range weapons understood that and were competant at keeping you at range. Characters with fast attacks are a b***h to get a hit in on before they hit you first,even if you have much greater range than they do. And the rest of the enemies were more aggressive than ever. But it's been downhill all the way ever since with a few exceptions, but nothing has ever reached the heights of DW4XL, and 4XL is the only one where enemies have ever done anything other than just come straight at you. And all the characters have been dumbed down tremendously too, they all play more or less the same now. They don't have strengths and weaknesses or movesets which require any skill to use.

The one thing more frustrating than a too easy game is a game where you steamroll effortlessly through the entire game on normal and get steamrolled on hard straight out of the starting block.

I'm not interested in challenging games at all. First of all, I'm not remotely interested in overcoming the challenge. I actually get very easily frustrated and impatient and give up on such games. I've played video games since I was 12 (younger if you count those small handhelds that was one single game), and I have never been particularly skilled.

In RF4 I checked the recommended level for some bosses, but I got beat and didn't stand a chance. I had to be a couple of levels higher than the recommended level. On 'easy' setting.

I also can't stand it when RPGs punish you for dying by making you lose a lot of money and/or valuable items.

I'm only into gaming for relaxation and having a good time. I'm all about getting into the world of the game, enjoying the inner experience that gives me. I find that Pokemon, Rune factory, Harvest moon (especially Mineral Town, Tale of two Towns and Bazaar), Fantasy Life, and Animal Crossing are games that fit this perfectly.
I also very much enjoy Mario Party and Dragon Quest

I like games like SMB, Tetris, Frogger, PacMan and racing games but I find that the way I have to keep paying attention and be quick is quite exhausting and I can only play them for so long, unlike Pokemon, RF, FL and AC. This has become more of an issue as I've gotten older.

It's the same with board, card and dice games. I love light games I can enjoy and relax with. Ticket to ride is one example of an easy to get and very immersive game.

I think that a game without challenge is pointless, because without challenge no gameplay mechanics have any weight. Challenge is what makes games meaningful; Symphonia of the Night, for instance, is a fantastic experience but the wide gameplay possibilities are undermined by a lack of difficulty.

There is one caveat, and that is player created challenge. An easy game can still allow you to complete its challenges in a stylish or efficient manner. That is why many of us, myself included, still enjoy Symphony of the Night. It's also the means by which easy random encounters in JRPGs can still be fun.

This is required reading when talking about difficulty:

Aye, I agree with these things.

That was one of the problems I always had with RPGs, back when I actually used to play them (SNES era mostly, going somewhat into the PS2). Something like, say, Final Fantasy 4 and 6 had all these different game elements; characters had various different stats, there were tons of different spells and abilities to use, loads of different equipment, and so on. But the games were stupidly easy. It was hard to care whatsoever about all of those spells when they werent even remotely necessary to get through the game due to nothing being a real threat. Heck, I remember the point in which you get Edgar in FF6; what little strategy the game has goes totally out the window, as 99% of encounters can be won by simply firing his auto-crossbow exactly one time. I think stuff like this is a huge part of why players of such games dislike random encounters so much: They just feel like mindless busywork, because they require zero effort. As a result, entire game mechanics go totally ignored.

Compare that to something like a roguelike, where you either understand the whole thing, or the game will beat you over the head with your own face. Currently I'm playing a game called Dungeon of the Endless. It's basically a combination of roguelike, strategy (both real-time AND turn-based), and Tower Defense. It's a very complicated game... there's so many interlocking mechanics in it. Because it's so very difficult, you need to understand ALL of it. There isnt a single mechanic in the game that isnt important. And the RNG featured in all roguelikes forces you to change up your strategy and actually THINK about what you're doing; you cant just go "well I'll get access to this tower when I reach the 5th floor" because the tower research choices are random. So you cannot just read about one "best" way to go about the game... you have to think for yourself, and this means understanding every little element the game throws at you, and all of the tools it presents to you (and there's ALOT of both). The game is fascinating and completely keeps my mind engaged, and it provides the high satisfaction of defeating an insurmountable enemy when you face a nasty situation (which is frequently).

An easier game though? I just get bored. They're not making me think much, they're not making me use any real effort, and there's little satisfaction to be gained from defeating an enemy whose only attack is to die in my general direction.

I'm just glad the indie scene has gotten as big as it has... the Big Guys are usually afraid to put real challenge in their games because they want to make sure the player can experience the whole thing (and thus, buy the next 80 sequels). There are exceptions like Dark Souls, but.... even that isnt genuinely all that difficult.

difficulty is not exactly crucial for a good gaming experience, but it helps much if the game doesn’t have other redeeming qualities in way of likable characters, or pleasing scenery.

favorite games do tend to have all of those things though... a difficulty level that cannot be surpassed even from the start without encouraging the player to learn toward mastery, a good likable cast of characters(more important than story... personal preference is for light japanese stories that allow the player to fill in the blanks with their own sentiments anyhow over the heavy trend of developers providing tiny diorama-like worlds of vaguely interactive cinema while failing in attempt to project their own sentiments upon the player.), and a deep culture/environment that prods the mind curious to explore(some favorite environments have been of mythical old chinese or japanese lands and culture with inhabitants from their lands’ folklore... though a relatively unique fantasy realm, although a rarity, can be nice to escape to, too.).

after having said all of that, words are hard to find as to why simple things like frantically flying about as a goat strapped to a jet-pack while summoning sperm-whales to fall from the heavens on the world below in “goat simulator” can be so amusing at the end of a long day.

oh, yeah. i hate that too. IMO, there does have to be some penalty for dying, or meeting the game's 'lose' conditions, but that seems like just a bad way to do it. it's so goddamn discouraging and it makes me want to stop playing altogether when that happens to me.

bioshock infinite did it the wrong way too.

^Pokemon Mystery Dungeon does that. I just reset whenever that happens, and try again [even if I'm in the middle of a 20 floor dungeon].

I think some degree of challenge is important to get involved in a game, but how much is all up to personal taste. If it's too easy and doesn't require your attention, it's boring. If it's too hard, then it's frustrating.

I have slow reflexes, but I enjoy the challenges in MMOs and RPGs that are about learning systems and different boss fights, and finding better and different ways to win. Puzzle games tend to be too obtuse and have answers that don't make much sense.

In my games, I find myself preferring an intellectual challenge - both in the strategic sense in terms of Fire Emblem and the "if I don't pay attention I'll die" sense in terms of Terraria. I have weird tastes, I know.