The Red Elite and its doimination of American politics

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jrjones9933
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03 Mar 2017, 9:35 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
As Jacoby said, Democrat majorities are very concentrated ... here is a 2016 election country map ...

Such concentration means Democrats will lose overall in all the local elections (House, Senate, judges, state houses, govenorships ...)

Image


Those metro districts on the coasts and the few in the middle is the Hillary Clinton archepelago. The area in the middle where most of the electoral votes are is Donald Trumpland.

Population is not evenly distributed across geographic areas.


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09 Mar 2017, 2:46 am

This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

I am wondering whether having a electoral commission that is non-partisan could work rather than having state legislatures do the job.



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09 Mar 2017, 4:33 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....






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Shahunshah
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09 Mar 2017, 4:36 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....
Because it is a fundamental principle of democracy, people need to have a voice. If they don't have that then their could be a government that can institute policies that are harmful and go against the wishes of the people.

You come from Maryland. Its people like you that gotta lobby for change.



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09 Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

That is the nature of our FPTP system, it won't be changed without a complete change of government at this point and we wouldn't come out of that as one intact country after which point. Gerrymandering is just the reality of whoever happens to be in charge during redistricting, an independent entity could do I guess but there isn't anything stopping them from being biased either. Part of it is the fact the we have mandated majority-minority districts which work well since minorities usually live close together in large urban cities but what you get then is a district that will vote 80%+ for the Democrat every time which makes Democrats mad that it wasn't gerrymandered enough ironically enough.

Who is better democratically represented, the person who votes for the landslide candidate in an uncompetitive seat or the person that lost a competitive 49/51?



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09 Mar 2017, 5:09 pm

Jacoby wrote:
That is the nature of our FPTP system, it won't be changed without a complete change of government at this point and we wouldn't come out of that as one intact country after which point. Gerrymandering is just the reality of whoever happens to be in charge during redistricting, an independent entity could do I guess but there isn't anything stopping them from being biased either. Part of it is the fact the we have mandated majority-minority districts which work well since minorities usually live close together in large urban cities but what you get then is a district that will vote 80%+ for the Democrat every time which makes Democrats mad that it wasn't gerrymandered enough ironically enough.

Who is better democratically represented, the person who votes for the landslide candidate in an uncompetitive seat or the person that lost a competitive 49/51?

I personally think redistricting should be something that includes a voice for the largest amount of people. The way to do that is by not stacking minorities in the same district but evening things out so these people have more representation.



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09 Mar 2017, 5:54 pm

That's considered gerrymandering too, Democrats basically want their cake and to eat it too since without the majority-minority districts then redistricters will be accuses of diluting minority voting power and representation. Personally I think our government should be more like France and stop distinguishing people by races in our census period so this horsetrading problem wouldn't even exist.



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09 Mar 2017, 7:43 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....
Because it is a fundamental principle of democracy, people need to have a voice. If they don't have that then their could be a government that can institute policies that are harmful and go against the wishes of the people.

Welp, I still don't follow. Maryland had a voice in this past election----Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1, and Hillary received 60-some percent of the votes, in Maryland.

Maryland only has, like, 6 million people----and, for her (Maryland) to have 12% representation, I'd say she's doin' alright. Remember, the lesser the population, the higher the voting power----we have more voting power than NY, for instance, cuz we only have a little over 400,000 people per electoral vote; whereas, NY has well over 500,000, IIRC.The higher the number of people per electoral vote, the lower the chances are that a resident's favorite will get elected, cuz the lesser the chances are that every one of those people will vote for him.





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Shahunshah
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09 Mar 2017, 7:47 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....
Because it is a fundamental principle of democracy, people need to have a voice. If they don't have that then their could be a government that can institute policies that are harmful and go against the wishes of the people.

Welp, I still don't follow. Maryland had a voice in this past election----Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1, and Hillary received 60-some percent of the votes, in Maryland.

Maryland only has, like, 6 million people----and, for her (Maryland) to have 12% representation, I'd say she's doin' alright. Remember, the lesser the population, the higher the voting power----we have more voting power than NY, for instance, cuz we only have a little over 400,000 people per electoral vote; whereas, NY has well over 500,000, IIRC.The higher the number of people per electoral vote, the lower the chances are that a resident's favorite will get elected, cuz the lesser the chances are that every one of those people will vote for him.
But in Congress 7-8 of Maryland's representatives are democrats. In my eyes that should be lower as quite a substantial number of people voted Republican and they do not have a voice.



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09 Mar 2017, 8:22 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....
Because it is a fundamental principle of democracy, people need to have a voice. If they don't have that then their could be a government that can institute policies that are harmful and go against the wishes of the people.

Welp, I still don't follow. Maryland had a voice in this past election----Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1, and Hillary received 60-some percent of the votes, in Maryland.

Maryland only has, like, 6 million people----and, for her (Maryland) to have 12% representation, I'd say she's doin' alright. Remember, the lesser the population, the higher the voting power----we have more voting power than NY, for instance, cuz we only have a little over 400,000 people per electoral vote; whereas, NY has well over 500,000, IIRC.The higher the number of people per electoral vote, the lower the chances are that a resident's favorite will get elected, cuz the lesser the chances are that every one of those people will vote for him.
But in Congress 7-8 of Maryland's representatives are democrats. In my eyes that should be lower as quite a substantial number of people voted Republican and they do not have a voice.

Well, then you're gonna have to blame the Republicans of Maryland, cuz enough of them didn't get out and vote----don't blame me (not that you are), I voted Republican!! I would've given almost ANYTHING for Kathy Szeliga (shuh LAY guh), to win----I totally LOVE her!! She was on Baltimore's local politics show (last week, I think it was), and tore the Democrat on there a new one, and never ONCE bore her claws (meaning, she was a lady, about it).




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Shahunshah
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11 Mar 2017, 6:07 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
This is also on the Democratic side too it seems. 36% of Maryland voted for Trump. They only have 12% of the congressional representation. This is really bad.

Why is this bad? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to have a better understanding of your line of thinking.....
Because it is a fundamental principle of democracy, people need to have a voice. If they don't have that then their could be a government that can institute policies that are harmful and go against the wishes of the people.

Welp, I still don't follow. Maryland had a voice in this past election----Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1, and Hillary received 60-some percent of the votes, in Maryland.

Maryland only has, like, 6 million people----and, for her (Maryland) to have 12% representation, I'd say she's doin' alright. Remember, the lesser the population, the higher the voting power----we have more voting power than NY, for instance, cuz we only have a little over 400,000 people per electoral vote; whereas, NY has well over 500,000, IIRC.The higher the number of people per electoral vote, the lower the chances are that a resident's favorite will get elected, cuz the lesser the chances are that every one of those people will vote for him.
But in Congress 7-8 of Maryland's representatives are democrats. In my eyes that should be lower as quite a substantial number of people voted Republican and they do not have a voice.

Well, then you're gonna have to blame the Republicans of Maryland, cuz enough of them didn't get out and vote----don't blame me (not that you are), I voted Republican!! I would've given almost ANYTHING for Kathy Szeliga (shuh LAY guh), to win----I totally LOVE her!! She was on Baltimore's local politics show (last week, I think it was), and tore the Democrat on there a new one, and never ONCE bore her claws (meaning, she was a lady, about it).
They did vote but the problem is it didnt change anyrhing their votes were ignored and they only got 12% representation. That makes the other 24% voiceless. What I am talking about is a system that violates democracy. Basically they pack Republican voters into one district and then spread out the rest with a big democratic majority and a republican minority that way it is ensured the democrats will win most of the districts.

Your vote probably meant nothing. And that is wrong.

Why you like Kathy out of interest.



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24 Mar 2017, 10:24 pm

...I find your answering a left-ish argument about right-wing donors including , IIRC , the Koch's with a right-ish argument of " That's REALLYOLD ! Now , talk about George Soros...HE'S the source of all evil and badness . Now move along , there's not thing else to talk about but Soros ' to - well , illustrate that everybody sees things from their positions at the table ! :P
Just for one of your points , minorities do not nessecarily all " choose " to live together , past discriminatory laws (No longer around but still having had an effect) and rules/covenants , and discriminatory investment patterns (For example , during the post-WWII suburbanization boom) certainly had something to do with that .
I meant to post this some ways ago but couldn't at that time . :|









uote="Jacoby"]Not even close to 100%. Democrats do worse for the simple fact that all their votes are concentrated in small geographic areas, it doesn't matter that they win 90% of some urban area when a plurality is all that is needed. The US does not have proportional representation, it's FPTP so you have to have a dispersed base of support. A lot of Democrat seats are mandated(1965 Civil Rights Act) minority-majority seats and minorities tend live close together in urban areas so to claim gerrymandering when that's all they want to do for themselves really carries no merit. This goes both ways as there are many Republican voters with no representation in Democratic districts too but there is nothing insidious about it beyond your typical politics.

You have no idea what you are talking about with Wisconsin, teachers did not see their median incomes sliced in half or any of that nonsense. Only the most ignorant foreigner would ever say Wisconsin state employees are 'held in bondage', it was an extreme going the other way with public workers using taxpayer money to bargain against the taxpayers with legislators that that were elected by their unions and that is effectively what Walker ended. Now the state doesn't collect their dues for them, now they actually have to represent their workers instead of a bloated ideological union leadership and predictably a lot of workers aren't so enthused about their leadership.

The whole Koch brother thing is so old, you have to find a new Republican boogeyman. Those guys didn't even really support Trump you know? There is no equivalent to Democrat puppetmaster George Soros at this point whose fingers are in everything across multiple continents.[/quote]


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25 Mar 2017, 1:35 am

I am done here. I believe that some of the grievances I have said were legitimate but overall what I did was try to find an easy answer for this that was not true.



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27 Mar 2017, 10:23 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
They did vote but the problem is it didnt change anyrhing their votes were ignored and they only got 12% representation. That makes the other 24% voiceless. What I am talking about is a system that violates democracy. Basically they pack Republican voters into one district and then spread out the rest with a big democratic majority and a republican minority that way it is ensured the democrats will win most of the districts.

Gerrymandering is stupid and needs to die, true, but as long as states right's is a thing that people run on, it won't really go away as it's set by each state.

https://nationalmap.gov/small_scale/pri ... gress.html
Quote:
Your vote probably meant nothing. And that is wrong.
that's why the electoral college is controversial right now.