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Kraichgauer
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18 May 2017, 1:26 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
... the reputation of the liberals as a whole that they worked so hard at cultivating, was severely damaged by them by the way they reacted after the election and continue to react.


I'd say, before that ... during the campaign, when the primaries were going on, for example. It was when an obscenity-shouting mob shut down a Trump rally in Chicago that I sat up and took notice. Because if the left-wing protestors had anything worthwhile to say for their side, they wouldn't have needed to stoop to bullying and intimidation tactics to go up against Trump's right to free speech and freedom of expression ... instead, they could have presented their own ideas in a civilized manner. That they didn't spoke volumes.


Not to defend violent actions, but the reasons behind it all has to do with their outrage against the Trmp campaign's flirtation with Alt Right white nationalists, such as the likes of David Duke, Richard Spencer, and Steve Bannon. It wasn't just that Trump's rallies were often attended by racists showing their support, but that Trump used their language to appeal to them, used their racist internet memes, and specious claims about massive voter fraud by blacks and Latinos, or that 90% of white homicide victims are murdered by blacks. You would not have seen this reaction from the left had Trump chosen to take the highroad.


So the decision was to fight lowroad with lowroad? I really see no way to dignify it. It was destructive to the left and helpful to the right. And it continues to this day with people still appearing nothing more than vengeful, paranoid and hysterical.


Those individuals who perpetrated violence were just that - individuals - who threw away sense and logic for rage, but hardly represented the whole political left. Is all the right to be burdened with the actions of those violent fanatics who had tried stopping desegregation by force, or who physically assault gay and trans people?


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Kraichgauer
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18 May 2017, 1:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
And why would the US need to carpet bomb N. Korea with nukes? They didn't need to carpet bomb Iraq with nukes.

It would be dependent if the North Koreans were capable of launching long distance intercontinental missiles with nuclear warheads. At the moment they don't seem to have this capacity but the Chinese and Pakistanis (honestly why are America helping this country?) have been supplying them with technology so this could be possible in future.


The Bush administration had twisted Pakistan's arm into helping us against Bin Laden and Mullah Omar, following 9/11, in return for ending prohibitions on the Pakistani nuclear program. Not a great idea, as their own relationship with the Taliban and Islamic terrorists, as well as their covert sheltering of Bin Laden, casts serious doubt on their commitment to the War on Terror.


Its funny the strategic games that lead to this type of brinksmanship and possible nuclear war...reminds me the orange one has his itchy finger on the nukes

Mao Tse Tung might have been a fanatical communist yet he was also a keen student of the imperial military strategist Sun Szu. "An enemy of my enemy is my friend"...Looks like Bush was also a fan of Sun Szu as well...


Unfortunately, such strategy can't calculate for the unforeseeable in the future.


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the_phoenix
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19 May 2017, 6:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says any of those rioters were payed by anyone? Can't people be outraged on their own?


Paid or not, it's a far cry from "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" as said by Evelyn Beatrice Hall and as normally attributed to Voltaire.


It's easy to repeat that quote, but it's difficult to put it into practice when the other party are spewing ugly hate directed at racial and religious minorities.




... and segwaying back to Comey ...

Image



Kraichgauer
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19 May 2017, 7:04 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And who says any of those rioters were payed by anyone? Can't people be outraged on their own?


Paid or not, it's a far cry from "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" as said by Evelyn Beatrice Hall and as normally attributed to Voltaire.


It's easy to repeat that quote, but it's difficult to put it into practice when the other party are spewing ugly hate directed at racial and religious minorities.




... and segwaying back to Comey ...

Image


I'm talking about how the Alt Right is all for massive deportations of for all non-whites, their racially motivated vandalism, all their divisive talk about alleged minority criminality and laziness, about how Latinos were supposed to be taking all our jobs, and that all Muslims are potential terrorists. At least Black Lives Matter has a justification for their activism, whereas the Alt Right just stir up hate.


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the_phoenix
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19 May 2017, 7:13 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm talking about how the Alt Right is all for massive deportations of for all non-whites, their racially motivated vandalism, all their divisive talk about alleged minority criminality and laziness, about how Latinos were supposed to be taking all our jobs, and that all Muslims are potential terrorists. At least Black Lives Matter has a justification for their activism, whereas the Alt Right just stir up hate.


That's just a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations --
as usual, you offer no sources, only opinions.



cyberdad
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19 May 2017, 7:29 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm talking about how the Alt Right is all for massive deportations of for all non-whites, their racially motivated vandalism, all their divisive talk about alleged minority criminality and laziness, about how Latinos were supposed to be taking all our jobs, and that all Muslims are potential terrorists. At least Black Lives Matter has a justification for their activism, whereas the Alt Right just stir up hate.


That's just a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations --
as usual, you offer no sources, only opinions.

The Alt-right spokesperson Spencer has said on numerous occasions their primary goal is the "protection of the white race" which is code for anti-miscegenation. This has always been the greatest fear of the right wing

Whatever means are necessary to achieve this - deportation or apartheid are their ultimate goals, it's not like it's a conspiracy its an open secret



EzraS
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19 May 2017, 7:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
... the reputation of the liberals as a whole that they worked so hard at cultivating, was severely damaged by them by the way they reacted after the election and continue to react.


I'd say, before that ... during the campaign, when the primaries were going on, for example. It was when an obscenity-shouting mob shut down a Trump rally in Chicago that I sat up and took notice. Because if the left-wing protestors had anything worthwhile to say for their side, they wouldn't have needed to stoop to bullying and intimidation tactics to go up against Trump's right to free speech and freedom of expression ... instead, they could have presented their own ideas in a civilized manner. That they didn't spoke volumes.


Not to defend violent actions, but the reasons behind it all has to do with their outrage against the Trmp campaign's flirtation with Alt Right white nationalists, such as the likes of David Duke, Richard Spencer, and Steve Bannon. It wasn't just that Trump's rallies were often attended by racists showing their support, but that Trump used their language to appeal to them, used their racist internet memes, and specious claims about massive voter fraud by blacks and Latinos, or that 90% of white homicide victims are murdered by blacks. You would not have seen this reaction from the left had Trump chosen to take the highroad.


So the decision was to fight lowroad with lowroad? I really see no way to dignify it. It was destructive to the left and helpful to the right. And it continues to this day with people still appearing nothing more than vengeful, paranoid and hysterical.


Those individuals who perpetrated violence were just that - individuals - who threw away sense and logic for rage, but hardly represented the whole political left. Is all the right to be burdened with the actions of those violent fanatics who had tried stopping desegregation by force, or who physically assault gay and trans people?


No, but that's what's usually done anyways - the right are always being described as racist, homophobic, fascist, ignorant, redneck, deplorable etc. To the left they can now say, "welcome to my world".



the_phoenix
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19 May 2017, 7:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm talking about how the Alt Right is all for massive deportations of for all non-whites, their racially motivated vandalism, all their divisive talk about alleged minority criminality and laziness, about how Latinos were supposed to be taking all our jobs, and that all Muslims are potential terrorists. At least Black Lives Matter has a justification for their activism, whereas the Alt Right just stir up hate.


That's just a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations --
as usual, you offer no sources, only opinions.

The Alt-right spokesperson Spencer has said on numerous occasions their primary goal is the "protection of the white race" which is code for anti-miscegenation. This has always been the greatest fear of the right wing

Whatever means are necessary to achieve this - deportation or apartheid are their ultimate goals, it's not like it's a conspiracy its an open secret


On numerous occasions?
Name one.
Source, please?



jrjones9933
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19 May 2017, 8:34 pm

http://www.npiamerica.org/the-national- ... a-minority

Spencer's Speech at the 2013 American Renaissance conference. Racial purity from the outset.


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19 May 2017, 8:43 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
http://www.npiamerica.org/the-national-policy-institute/blog/facing-the-future-as-a-minority

Spencer's Speech at the 2013 American Renaissance conference. Racial purity from the outset.


Thanks for providing a description of the link as well as the link,
because for two months now, clicking on other people's links doesn't work for me on Wrong Planet ...
I think I reported this in bugs but don't remember getting a response (need to check that again).

Meanwhile, I Googled Richard Spencer's speech ...
he certainly does seem like an extremist
from the little bit I read.

I definitely do not agree with his views.
That said, he has the right to express them,
so I would not agree with protestors using violence
to shut him up.



cyberdad
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19 May 2017, 10:23 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
Meanwhile, I Googled Richard Spencer's speech ...
he certainly does seem like an extremist
from the little bit I read.

Shucks! pity you couldn't read his manifesto
And we shouldn’t focus too much on the “2050” date, when Whites will become a minority, as if once Whites drop to 49 percent, a bell will go after announcing the end of the American Dream. We are at a major crisis point now. And we are well past the point of no return with regards to “patriotic immigration reform.”

Furthermore, this insight into the irrelevance of immigration reform holds for the whole kit-and-caboodle of “conservative” causes. Should we, for instance, really be fighting for “limited government” or the Constitution, so that the Afro-Mestzizo-Carribean Melting Pot can enjoy the blessing of liberty and a sound currency? (To ask the question is to answer it.)

In those two paragraphs he invokes the fear that many middle class Americans have had from the time Slavery was abolished. The US government has alleviated these fears right up to the 1960s by outlawing intermarriage and going to extreme lengths to define what is "white"

I think these views are far more widespread than the Alt-right movement but Spencer is stirring the pot...giving oxygen to many who feel emboldened to join in the racist dialogue



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19 May 2017, 11:25 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
http://www.npiamerica.org/the-national-policy-institute/blog/facing-the-future-as-a-minority

Spencer's Speech at the 2013 American Renaissance conference. Racial purity from the outset.


Thanks for providing a description of the link as well as the link,
because for two months now, clicking on other people's links doesn't work for me on Wrong Planet ...
I think I reported this in bugs but don't remember getting a response (need to check that again).

Meanwhile, I Googled Richard Spencer's speech ...
he certainly does seem like an extremist
from the little bit I read.

I definitely do not agree with his views.
That said, he has the right to express them,
so I would not agree with protestors using violence
to shut him up.


He's an individual who gets far more attention than is warranted. Which is probably due to the left bringing up his name constantly. He invented the term "alt-right" which again, is a term I pretty much only hear from the left. And it seems they pretty much apply the "alt-right" (or alt-reich) term to the right in general.



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19 May 2017, 11:35 pm

EzraS wrote:
He's an individual who gets far more attention than is warranted. Which is probably due to the left bringing up his name constantly. He invented the term "alt-right" which again, is a term I pretty much only hear from the left. And it seems they pretty much apply the "alt-right" (or alt-reich) term to the right in general.


One can't just be right-wing, they must be alt-right to drive home the outrageous qualities to listener, just as someone can't be left, they have to be 'fringe-left' or 'far-left' to hammer the listener with images of lunacy. As for Spencer I'm really interested to see the speech he's drafting for Trump to deliver to the Saudis, lol, the most anti-muslim person on Trump's staff writing for muslims, there should be some fireworks-- at least Trump will be hoping those sounds were fireworks.



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20 May 2017, 6:10 am

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
http://www.npiamerica.org/the-national-policy-institute/blog/facing-the-future-as-a-minority

Spencer's Speech at the 2013 American Renaissance conference. Racial purity from the outset.


Thanks for providing a description of the link as well as the link,
because for two months now, clicking on other people's links doesn't work for me on Wrong Planet ...
I think I reported this in bugs but don't remember getting a response (need to check that again).

Meanwhile, I Googled Richard Spencer's speech ...
he certainly does seem like an extremist
from the little bit I read.

I definitely do not agree with his views.
That said, he has the right to express them,
so I would not agree with protestors using violence
to shut him up.


He's an individual who gets far more attention than is warranted. Which is probably due to the left bringing up his name constantly. He invented the term "alt-right" which again, is a term I pretty much only hear from the left. And it seems they pretty much apply the "alt-right" (or alt-reich) term to the right in general.


Exactly.



Kraichgauer
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20 May 2017, 3:12 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
http://www.npiamerica.org/the-national-policy-institute/blog/facing-the-future-as-a-minority

Spencer's Speech at the 2013 American Renaissance conference. Racial purity from the outset.


Thanks for providing a description of the link as well as the link,
because for two months now, clicking on other people's links doesn't work for me on Wrong Planet ...
I think I reported this in bugs but don't remember getting a response (need to check that again).

Meanwhile, I Googled Richard Spencer's speech ...
he certainly does seem like an extremist
from the little bit I read.

I definitely do not agree with his views.
That said, he has the right to express them,
so I would not agree with protestors using violence
to shut him up.


He's an individual who gets far more attention than is warranted. Which is probably due to the left bringing up his name constantly. He invented the term "alt-right" which again, is a term I pretty much only hear from the left. And it seems they pretty much apply the "alt-right" (or alt-reich) term to the right in general.


Exactly.


Trump considered the Alt Right to be numerous and influential enough to court them. Otherwise, Steve Bannon wouldn't be working in the White House today.


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cyberdad
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20 May 2017, 9:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump considered the Alt Right to be numerous and influential enough to court them. Otherwise, Steve Bannon wouldn't be working in the White House today.


Yes why all the fuss about Breitbart :roll:
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... c-language

This is a publication under "hate watch"

Seems the Trump supporters have their head in the sand on Steve Bannon's unusual placement in strategically advising Trump. The best one can surmise is there is a mailaise/apathy about having open racist influence public policy in the US