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the_phoenix
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26 Jun 2017, 10:38 pm

SH90 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
What I wonder is how many who go on about the poor, proactively do anything to help them. Like do their actions match their words of concern? It seems like "what can I personally do to help the poor on a regular basis (no matter how much it hurts)" should be their primary objective. If they really actually care about the poor.

Most that are complaining, are poor themselves. They like to point fingers and blame everyone else; businesses and the wealthy. Rather then looking at their own shortcomings that need improvements... Instead, they just demand more for nothing; at the expense of others.

EzraS wrote:
Why isn't there some huge foundation that people care about the poor donate to, so that poor people can receive a stipend from it? They can completely bypass government aid systems with one of their own. So why hasn't this happened?

There is, most of the donations get sucked up by administration costs... Local ones that give back directly and supported by local business, are more effective.


Point 1:

My best friend whom I lost to heart disease several years ago was dirt poor. It's possible she was on the autism spectrum. Anyways, one day, someone gave her $20 to use towards groceries. Well, my best friend gave half of that money to a stranger on a public Medicaid van "because he looked so sad." When I heard about it, at first I was a little angry and upset thinking about how my friend would now be going without food that she desperately needed ... but thinking about it, it was a very noble, heroic, unselfish thing she did. Some of the poorest people can also be the most generous ... it's all about attitude.

Point 2:

Agree ... smaller, local charities are better than the big bureaucratic ones.

...



EzraS
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26 Jun 2017, 10:47 pm

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Most people on the right know that capitalism doesn't work. They just don't care.

"Poor people are starving to death? I don't care! Cry me a river you girly liberal!"


What I wonder is how many who go on about the poor, proactively do anything to help them. Like do their actions match their words of concern? It seems like "what can I personally do to help the poor on a regular basis (no matter how much it hurts)" should be their primary objective. If they really actually care about the poor.


Exactly.


Why isn't there some huge foundation that people care about the poor donate to, so that poor people can receive a stipend from it? They can completely bypass government aid systems with one of their own. So why hasn't this happened?


There are some good food pantries that are worth donating to, close to where I live.
Maybe you have some near you?


I know about those. But what I'm wondering is how much concern for the poor I see posted on the internet is really just crocodile tears and political posturing from the comfort of nice homes.



the_phoenix
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26 Jun 2017, 10:56 pm

EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Most people on the right know that capitalism doesn't work. They just don't care.

"Poor people are starving to death? I don't care! Cry me a river you girly liberal!"


What I wonder is how many who go on about the poor, proactively do anything to help them. Like do their actions match their words of concern? It seems like "what can I personally do to help the poor on a regular basis (no matter how much it hurts)" should be their primary objective. If they really actually care about the poor.


Exactly.


Why isn't there some huge foundation that people care about the poor donate to, so that poor people can receive a stipend from it? They can completely bypass government aid systems with one of their own. So why hasn't this happened?


There are some good food pantries that are worth donating to, close to where I live.
Maybe you have some near you?


I know about those. But what I'm wondering is how much concern for the poor I see posted on the internet is really just crocodile tears and political posturing from the comfort of nice homes.


Totally agree with you, EzraS.

And I would go even farther, because seeing how even my poverty-stricken friend was generous and gave money to someone she believed was worse off than her, it seems that instead of grumbling which goes nowhere, a little bit of active caring and actually helping someone (not even necessarily with money) would go a long way.



Chronos
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27 Jun 2017, 12:39 am

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Most people on the right know that capitalism doesn't work. They just don't care.

"Poor people are starving to death? I don't care! Cry me a river you girly liberal!"


What I wonder is how many who go on about the poor, proactively do anything to help them. Like do their actions match their words of concern? It seems like "what can I personally do to help the poor on a regular basis (no matter how much it hurts)" should be their primary objective. If they really actually care about the poor.


Exactly.


Why isn't there some huge foundation that people care about the poor donate to, so that poor people can receive a stipend from it? They can completely bypass government aid systems with one of their own. So why hasn't this happened?


There are some good food pantries that are worth donating to, close to where I live.
Maybe you have some near you?


Food pantries often prefer people donate money instead of food. I suspect this is to take advantage of the fact that they can purchase food at wholesale prices, and round out their inventory.



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27 Jun 2017, 1:34 am

LOL The conservatives in this thread are seriously claiming that private charity can replace a social safety net.

I am poor. Everyone who doesn't own the means of production is poor in the grand scheme of things.
I'm fighting for my own self-interest here.

Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot since they believe in the "American Dream".
Just keep working your fingers to the bone. Tell me when you become a billionaire who owns the means of production.

The real oppressors in this world are the billionaires who own the factories, the super-farms and the natural resources. They sell us the fruits of Mother Earth for the highest possible price.

Think you "American dream" people can own the means of production? Just try ... unless you actually like being a workhorse paying for overpriced goods.

How's that for "rational self-interest"?

"History is not like some individual person, which uses men to achieve its ends. History is nothing but the actions of men in pursuit of their ends."
- Karl Marx


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EzraS
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27 Jun 2017, 1:49 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LOL The conservatives in this thread are seriously claiming that private charity can replace a social safety net.

I am poor. Everyone who doesn't own the means of production is poor in the grand scheme of things.
I'm fighting for my own self-interest here.

Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot since they believe in the "American Dream".
Just keep working your fingers to the bone. Tell me when you become a billionaire who owns the means of production.

The real oppressors in this world are the billionaires who own the factories, the super-farms and the natural resources. They sell us the fruits of Mother Earth for the highest possible price.

Think you "American dream" people can own the means of production? Just try ... unless you actually like being a workhorse paying for overpriced goods.

How's that for "rational self-interest"?

"History is not like some individual person, which uses men to achieve its ends. History is nothing but the actions of men in pursuit of their ends."
- Karl Marx


I myself am just wondering how many people who bemoane the fate of the poor ever put their money where their mouth is. Actions vs words.

So if a person makes $300 million a year, they're poor because they're not a billionaire?

There are no billionaires who are liberals? Is Bill Gates a conservative?



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27 Jun 2017, 1:57 am

I'm still waiting for the private charities to put an end to the military-industrial complex and the propaganda machine.

Conservative Logic: The billionaires bribe politicians in order start wars, destroy the environment and control the news media. We don't even have a real democracy because lobbying is so common ... but that doesn't matter because private charity will solve everything!

Bill Gates is a "liberal" in the loosest sense of the word. He certainly isn't a socialist like me.


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EzraS
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27 Jun 2017, 2:02 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I'm still waiting for the private charities to put an end to the military-industrial complex and the propaganda machine.

Conservative Logic: The billionaires bribe politicians in order start wars, destroy the environment and control the news media. We don't even have a real democracy because lobbying is so common ... but that doesn't matter because private charity will solve everything!

Bill Gates is a "liberal" in the loosest sense of the word. He certainly isn't a socialist like me.


Okay so there should be a bolshevik revolution?



jcCoolidgejr.
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27 Jun 2017, 2:22 am

I hate libertarians because you can't just disagree and be wrong. You have to be wrong and stupid.



DarthMetaKnight
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27 Jun 2017, 3:08 am

EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I'm still waiting for the private charities to put an end to the military-industrial complex and the propaganda machine.

Conservative Logic: The billionaires bribe politicians in order start wars, destroy the environment and control the news media. We don't even have a real democracy because lobbying is so common ... but that doesn't matter because private charity will solve everything!

Bill Gates is a "liberal" in the loosest sense of the word. He certainly isn't a socialist like me.


Okay so there should be a bolshevik revolution?

*sigh* How many times do we have to go over this?
I'm a democratic socialist and a left-wing populist. The Soviet Union failed because Stalin couldn't be voted out. What if they had proper elections?

I just want a world that is truly democratic. The US doesn't feel democratic because it isn't ... due to lobbying. The rich can influence the state more than the poor can. What if we all had the same amount of influence?

Bernie lost the primaries because Hillary had the corporations on her side. Her campaign received more funding. In the end, the most pro-business candidate won the election. Pay no attention to his fake populist rhetoric. Donald Trump is a selfish rich jackass and that will never change.

What if we got money out of the democratic process? It's time for the candidates to stand on their own merits.

That way, America will gain a leader who truly represents the will of the American masses.


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27 Jun 2017, 3:17 am

jcCoolidgejr. wrote:
I hate libertarians because you can't just disagree and be wrong. You have to be wrong and stupid.


Yeah. I find that annoying too. It's like they're tying to be rich snobs.

By the way, "libertarian" meant "social anarchist" until recently.

What if the "libertarians" won? Lobbying would spiral out of control and the world would, ironically, become a totalitarian dictatorship.

Anarcho-capitalism also confuses me. In such a world, the natural resources would be seized by a small minority ... and they would likely force the masses to work very hard for these natural resources. In other words, anarcho-capitalism would be nearly indistinguishable from totalitarian feudalism.

The only an-cap that I like is Hans Hermann-Hoppe. He is a guy who says what every other an-cap is secretly thinking. At least he's honest.


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EzraS
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27 Jun 2017, 4:17 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I'm still waiting for the private charities to put an end to the military-industrial complex and the propaganda machine.

Conservative Logic: The billionaires bribe politicians in order start wars, destroy the environment and control the news media. We don't even have a real democracy because lobbying is so common ... but that doesn't matter because private charity will solve everything!

Bill Gates is a "liberal" in the loosest sense of the word. He certainly isn't a socialist like me.


Okay so there should be a bolshevik revolution?

*sigh* How many times do we have to go over this?
I'm a democratic socialist and a left-wing populist. The Soviet Union failed because Stalin couldn't be voted out. What if they had proper elections?

I just want a world that is truly democratic. The US doesn't feel democratic because it isn't ... due to lobbying. The rich can influence the state more than the poor can. What if we all had the same amount of influence?

Bernie lost the primaries because Hillary had the corporations on her side. Her campaign received more funding. In the end, the most pro-business candidate won the election. Pay no attention to his fake populist rhetoric. Donald Trump is a selfish rich jackass and that will never change.

What if we got money out of the democratic process? It's time for the candidates to stand on their own merits.

That way, America will gain a leader who truly represents the will of the American masses.


Far as I recall, this is the first time I have gone over this with you.

When I was 12 I actually invented socialism before I knew what it was. So it's not like I have a problem with the concept. I was just trying to figure out what all you were talking about. And how it's supposed to change. And in my opinion they're all selfish rich jackasses. My first choice would have been Sanders. I think Clinton would have been just as awful in her own way as Trump. I think they both wanted the job as a personal achievement more than anything else.



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27 Jun 2017, 5:24 am

How is it supposed to change? I'll tell you.

We are in a war of information. Tell people about how lobbyists have broken our democracy, created wars and financed Islamic terrorism. Make it clear that you are speaking for the majority of Americans and their rational self-interest. I almost never hear people talking about this sort of thing except online.

We are surrounded by corporate propaganda. Counter it with democratic populist wisdom.

That is the first step.

The American Revolution started because some Americans said "You know ... do we really need the monarchy? Perhaps the government would care about our needs if we could vote out bad leaders!"

Once the masses are armed with knowledge, they will probably vote for a good third party.

I know what some of the conservatives here are thinking. "Will this left-wing stuff lead to an unbearable PC outrage culture?"

Answer: Absolutely not. Keep in mind that I am pushing for populism above all else. Under my system, SJW culture will only persist if the American masses honestly want it.

I propose that we end corporate manipulation and put America in the hands of the masses. It's that simple. Let them decide what country they want for once.


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jcCoolidgejr.
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27 Jun 2017, 11:34 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
EzraS wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
I'm still waiting for the private charities to put an end to the military-industrial complex and the propaganda machine.

Conservative Logic: The billionaires bribe politicians in order start wars, destroy the environment and control the news media. We don't even have a real democracy because lobbying is so common ... but that doesn't matter because private charity will solve everything!

Bill Gates is a "liberal" in the loosest sense of the word. He certainly isn't a socialist like me.


Okay so there should be a bolshevik revolution?

*sigh* How many times do we have to go over this?
I'm a democratic socialist and a left-wing populist. The Soviet Union failed because Stalin couldn't be voted out. What if they had proper elections?

I just want a world that is truly democratic. The US doesn't feel democratic because it isn't ... due to lobbying. The rich can influence the state more than the poor can. What if we all had the same amount of influence?

Bernie lost the primaries because Hillary had the corporations on her side. Her campaign received more funding. In the end, the most pro-business candidate won the election. Pay no attention to his fake populist rhetoric. Donald Trump is a selfish rich jackass and that will never change.

What if we got money out of the democratic process? It's time for the candidates to stand on their own merits.

That way, America will gain a leader who truly represents the will of the American masses.


"Democratic Socialism" is just selfish losers voting to get free stuff. All successful countries haves moved away from that model. South Korea, Australia, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, France, Russia, China, and Afganistan just to name a few. "Democratic Socalism" is killing places like Greece, Venesuala, Chille, Mexico, South Africa, South Sudan, Qatar, & Japan. Just because it has democratic in the name doesn't mean it works. You can't expect the rich to pay 90% of the taxes and have the same day as everyone else. And the "Military Industrial Complex," ohoooo. To bad we need a military it's not like we had to fight two world wars and a planes flew into our towers. Government is corrupt and you want MORE GOVERNMENT? You have no idea what you are talking about because leftist never have to hear any opinion but there own but conservatives have to be masters in liberal philosophy because it bombards them all the time. Everyone knows your opinion. Check out Pregar U or Ben Shapiro or Steven Crowder. You obviously haven't hear the conservative side so you should probably shut your mouth and listen. Everyone knows your responses so just listen for ONCE.



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27 Jun 2017, 11:36 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
"Libertarians" don't seem to realize that capitalism is a form of oppression.

If you need to work 24/7 in order to make just enough money to survive, that isn't freedom.


If you go into life with that attitude you'll be a loser. Learn a craft of skill. That's how people make money. Not flipping paddies.



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27 Jun 2017, 12:40 pm

jcCoolidgejr. wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
"Libertarians" don't seem to realize that capitalism is a form of oppression.

If you need to work 24/7 in order to make just enough money to survive, that isn't freedom.


If you go into life with that attitude you'll be a loser. Learn a craft of skill. That's how people make money. Not flipping paddies.


Wow. Quit being a snob. Pull your head out of your ass.
I'm a university student. I just dream of something better. I want life to be easier.

Quit being a bootlicker.


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