Tired of Middle-Aged "Adults" Acting Like Trolls on WP

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the_phoenix
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25 Jul 2017, 10:01 pm

TheSpectrum wrote:
People identify so personally with a brand of politics or beliefs that they take an attack on their ideology as a personal attack. They then see this as just cause to get revenge. Their thought processes then paint you as a form of comic-book villain in order to vilify and dehumanize you. Then the attacks occur. It is their story of them, the hero, triumphant over the villain. Forget that you're not a fully fledged adult. Forget that you're new here or to forums. Forget that you recently lost people in your life. Forget any actual things that determine whether you're a good person or not. This is all that matters to them.

It is an ironically oversimplified way for people who handle complex discussions to process their thoughts, but there is a collective guilt here of seeing black and white more than all the shades in between.

As embarrassingly pathetic as that all sounds, I urge you to hang in there and not let people like that dictate the future of what has the potential to continue being a valuable support network and community overall.


Yep.
I was trying to post what you just did,
and you said very eloquently
what I wanted to say. :)



EzraS
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25 Jul 2017, 10:41 pm

Another thing that comes to mind in this is threse people attck my mental process and how I don't form what I say properly and use terms like "mental failing" which I think is a disturbing way to treat someone with relitively severe cognitive impairments (and they all know I have them).

When I pont this out I get the "hey everyone here is autistic and has cognitive impairment to some degree, stop thinking you're special this isn't a competition" etc.

I know most everyone here has autism, but I think level of severity does make a difference. The people laying into me that way probably don't require constant assistance like a small child does they way I do. I think considering the basement level of ability and performance I have in many real life areas, I do pretty at well in forming and wording my opions online for someone like me.

So I think it's pretty appalling for someone to pick on me that way on a continual basis. But they and no one else seems to see it that way.



the_phoenix
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25 Jul 2017, 11:31 pm

EzraS wrote:
Another thing that comes to mind in this is threse people attck my mental process and how I don't form what I say properly and use terms like "mental failing" which I think is a disturbing way to treat someone with relitively severe cognitive impairments (and they all know I have them).

...

So I think it's pretty appalling for someone to pick on me that way on a continual basis. But they and no one else seems to see it that way.


Wow ... for anyone to direct a remark such as "mental failing" at anyone else on Wrong Planet, of all places, should not be allowed. At a bare minimum, posts containing those kinds of attacks should be deleted.

You know what though, EzraS? When people pick on you this way, it might actually be a sign that they feel threatened by you or insecure, so they take the low road and just say mean things because they can't defend their position with logic. Because in my opinion, you communicate yourself quite well. I would never have guessed you had "severe" autism or needed a high level of care.



EzraS
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26 Jul 2017, 12:12 am

the_phoenix wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Another thing that comes to mind in this is threse people attck my mental process and how I don't form what I say properly and use terms like "mental failing" which I think is a disturbing way to treat someone with relitively severe cognitive impairments (and they all know I have them).

...

So I think it's pretty appalling for someone to pick on me that way on a continual basis. But they and no one else seems to see it that way.


Wow ... for anyone to direct a remark such as "mental failing" at anyone else on Wrong Planet, of all places, should not be allowed. At a bare minimum, posts containing those kinds of attacks should be deleted.

You know what though, EzraS? When people pick on you this way, it might actually be a sign that they feel threatened by you or insecure, so they take the low road and just say mean things because they can't defend their position with logic. Because in my opinion, you communicate yourself quite well. I would never have guessed you had "severe" autism or needed a high level of care.


Its' usually in my sig. The severe dysprxia plays as big a part in that as my autism. Dyspraxia also affects mental process and performance ability. While you weren't aware of it, I know for a fact the person who made the mental failing remark and other similar remarks is well aware of it as he said:

Quote:
Your previous statements about the severity of your disabilities


And somewhere else said:

Quote:
You're nowhere near clever enough to come up with a word like undignified on your own, but you have a savant ability to recognize it as inflammatory so you use it.


Lots of stuff like that. And yet he's allowed to continue harassing me. And I'm called a liar for saying I'm being harassed. Maybe because the mods are on his side politically idk.

(btw he wasn't reponding to me name calling him or any other member undignified).



League_Girl
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26 Jul 2017, 1:22 am

the_phoenix wrote:
TheSpectrum wrote:
People identify so personally with a brand of politics or beliefs that they take an attack on their ideology as a personal attack. They then see this as just cause to get revenge. Their thought processes then paint you as a form of comic-book villain in order to vilify and dehumanize you. Then the attacks occur. It is their story of them, the hero, triumphant over the villain. Forget that you're not a fully fledged adult. Forget that you're new here or to forums. Forget that you recently lost people in your life. Forget any actual things that determine whether you're a good person or not. This is all that matters to them.

It is an ironically oversimplified way for people who handle complex discussions to process their thoughts, but there is a collective guilt here of seeing black and white more than all the shades in between.

As embarrassingly pathetic as that all sounds, I urge you to hang in there and not let people like that dictate the future of what has the potential to continue being a valuable support network and community overall.


Yep.
I was trying to post what you just did,
and you said very eloquently
what I wanted to say. :)



Years ago I posted a comment on youtube about how lame Mario Kart 64 looked compared to the newer Mario Kart games because of the lack of levels and characters and items. Boy did I get insulted and got cussed at and got my comment hidden. Cry babies. :lol:


People also take their interests as attacks if anyone has a different opinion about it. It's not like I wrote "anyone who thinks Mario Kart 64 is the best MK game ever is lame and stupid." Now that would be an insult and an attack on members.

I am sure people do attack opinions and interests as a way to do a dig at people and it's not even against the rules because it's not considered an attack or an insult just as long as you attack the opinion only or an interest or a hobby. I have felt that way before like people can say say anything you wrote was something or call your comment anything negative and then they go "I didn't say you were a bigot, I said your comment was bigoted." Even if that does happen, there is nothing you can do because it's not against the rules.

I gotta say the funniest comment I got to my MK comment was "get off the internet" and something other insults.


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xDominiel
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26 Jul 2017, 9:13 am

traven wrote:
well for me i find the explicit expectation of quite a lot of users that we shall behave as the best of nts ... xx whatever xx


This implies that NTs' behavior is any better. Look through any social media thread or take a look at Twitter. It's like a schoolyard war zone.

I actually find that those outside the norm are often better behaved than those who like to think of themselves as normal.



aikoinazuma
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27 Jul 2017, 8:14 am

I agree a little bit with Starkid on a couple of the posters acting like trolls although I don't think the majority of them are middle-aged, per se. I do, however, think there is a lot of inflammatory political talk on the site and it's quite honestly an eyesore. It comes from all age groups and I'm surprised since I didn't think of Aspies as being as politicized as the NTs.


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beady
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28 Jul 2017, 5:10 am

starkid wrote:
Just saw a forty-something-year-old insult a teenager. Also wil@ard or however you spell the username saying that he wants to slap a 21-year-old. The people I'm talking about have been around for a while. They don't seem to be trolls.

Maybe I expect too much from people. You people in your 40s, 50s, and 60s should know how to behave by now. Completely ridiculous that you choose to express yourself with insults, condescension, and other nasty behavior. Disgusting.

Don't bother posting your excuses if you're one of the people I'm talking about. I don't care and I won't read them.


I tried to take some time before responding to this to be sure my feelings didn't change with some reflection but they have not.
I find this post very hurtful.
Using a blanket statement regarding an entire segment of any population based on any criteria including and especially age, sex, gender, race, religion, socioeconomic status or disability feels very prejudiced.
If I started a statement "I think all teenagers.should have already learned...." follow this with anything.....it would undoubtedly not be appropriate.
Learning is what many of us are here to do --- it's a lifelong task. Perhaps if someone is behaving in a way that you find upsetting, it would certainly feel less hurtful to me if you targeted that individual or those individuals specifically, and not a wide swath of a certain "age group". Age guarantees nothing but that one might have been struggling for a longer time.
Concluding your statement with a refusal to hear a response does not feel like you are trying to be helpful to those who may have offended you. Is the objective to exchange hurtful remarks?
I'm sorry if you have been hurt by any of my comments but I can't figure that out without a specific exchange.



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28 Jul 2017, 7:59 am

You actually expect something from people on the internet??? Whether they are 12, 22 or 52 an anal wipe is still an anal wipe...



lorknozzel
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28 Jul 2017, 1:21 pm

I'm not looking to lecture or give anyone the impression that I know it all, far from it, but I have been involved in conversations like this a lot of times in the past few decades and here's my two cents worth. Your mileage may vary ;)

I'm fairly old, I've been hosting and participating on bulletin boards and forums since it required a 300 baud modem and a transfer protocol like zmodem, look that up if you'd like a good giggle. Some things haven't changed much in the last 30 years, the most obvious of which is that even in the best of circumstances communicating through text only is a horribly imprecise process. As humans we learn to take in account body language, voice inflection, facial expressions, blushing, and a whole host of other cues in order to determine intention and meaning in a conversation. Take those out of the equation and understanding what a person means to communicate becomes very difficult. Add to that being on the spectrum and having problems catching all those cues in the first place and that adds another level of ambiguity to what others mean to say. Given all that, here's the best advice I can offer:

If you find you are insulted, offended, hurt, confused, etc with what someone has said to you, tell them. No need to be rude , or demeaning, or angry, just let them know. You'd be surprised how often that was not the intention of the person posting and they just came off that way because of phrasing. I've pissed off a lot of people over the years because I wasn't as clear as I would have liked and my post was taken in a way I did not intend. I would much rather be informed of the situation and have a chance to try to better explain myself than have someone else leave the conversation saying nothing and feeling insulted or abused by my words.

If you don't like something in life you only have two options, learn to live with it, or do something about it. If you can't work out the issue, then the only option that will give you peace is to truly learn to live with it. And, to that end, the only person you have control over is you. Sometimes in life we have to live with the fact that people aren't always willing or capable of coming around to our point of view or acting in a way we find acceptable. I've spent a good portion of my life getting over myself when I don't like the way things play out and I have no real control over the matter :P

That's pretty much all I've got, hope it helps someone :)


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androbot01
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28 Jul 2017, 1:45 pm

Haven't stopped in for a while, but it's amusing to see the same old melodrama continues to play itself out. I guess I'll stop back in the Fall.



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28 Jul 2017, 3:22 pm

I've been shocked at some of the bullying and derision I've seen on some threads. I honestly get scared by it, remembering being the object of bullying or ridicule in the past, even as a child. I want to think that other autistic people are safe to share challenges and experiences with - that there would be more understanding. And many of us certainly understand what it's like to be bullied, which really dismays me when I see it happening on this site. I get frustrated trying to express myself, but I can't imagine dumping anger on someone on WP or lashing out, knowing that we're generally more sensitive than average. And i wouldn't want to contribute to an environment where people are doing that to each other. Youth or age isn't any sort of excuse for not respecting others, neither is being neurodiverse. It's one thing to express disagreement with ideas, even extreme disagreement, but it's quite different to make that into personal attacks.



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28 Jul 2017, 3:36 pm

lorknozzel wrote:
I'm not looking to lecture or give anyone the impression that I know it all, far from it, but I have been involved in conversations like this a lot of times in the past few decades and here's my two cents worth. Your mileage may vary ;)

I'm fairly old, I've been hosting and participating on bulletin boards and forums since it required a 300 baud modem and a transfer protocol like zmodem, look that up if you'd like a good giggle. Some things haven't changed much in the last 30 years, the most obvious of which is that even in the best of circumstances communicating through text only is a horribly imprecise process. As humans we learn to take in account body language, voice inflection, facial expressions, blushing, and a whole host of other cues in order to determine intention and meaning in a conversation. Take those out of the equation and understanding what a person means to communicate becomes very difficult. Add to that being on the spectrum and having problems catching all those cues in the first place and that adds another level of ambiguity to what others mean to say. Given all that, here's the best advice I can offer:

If you find you are insulted, offended, hurt, confused, etc with what someone has said to you, tell them. No need to be rude , or demeaning, or angry, just let them know. You'd be surprised how often that was not the intention of the person posting and they just came off that way because of phrasing. I've pissed off a lot of people over the years because I wasn't as clear as I would have liked and my post was taken in a way I did not intend. I would much rather be informed of the situation and have a chance to try to better explain myself than have someone else leave the conversation saying nothing and feeling insulted or abused by my words.

If you don't like something in life you only have two options, learn to live with it, or do something about it. If you can't work out the issue, then the only option that will give you peace is to truly learn to live with it. And, to that end, the only person you have control over is you. Sometimes in life we have to live with the fact that people aren't always willing or capable of coming around to our point of view or acting in a way we find acceptable. I've spent a good portion of my life getting over myself when I don't like the way things play out and I have no real control over the matter :P

That's pretty much all I've got, hope it helps someone :)


Man I wish I had the balls to tell people how butt hurt I am by their comment but I am always on the defense because I assume everyone online is an as*hole. I have had experience where people really didn't give a s**t. If you're hurt, too bad, they were glad you're offended or that it was your own problem and get over it.


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28 Jul 2017, 8:47 pm

aikoinazuma wrote:
I agree a little bit with Starkid on a couple of the posters acting like trolls although I don't think the majority of them are middle-aged, per se. I do, however, think there is a lot of inflammatory political talk on the site and it's quite honestly an eyesore. It comes from all age groups and I'm surprised since I didn't think of Aspies as being as politicized as the NTs.


I agree a bit as well. I've also noticed that behaviour and it seems to always come from the same two people. I'm glad we're having this discussion.


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28 Jul 2017, 9:20 pm

This is fun. We've had discussions about overhearing conversations and thinking it's about us. It's an aspie thing.

The plain text of the forum rules makes sense to me, and I pay attention to the plain text of posts. If I was going around attacking anyone, I would be getting warned not to, or worse. The last warning (informal) that I got was for calling a person's behavior tomfoolery. Since then, it's been all about the factual content of posts. If my inferences about the words you type bother you, come back with better info. I have shown the capacity to change my opinions. I will even forgive people for mocking my doing so, after trying to change them!

You don't do anyone any favors by confirming their persecution fantasies. Rebut disagreements with facts. If disagreement turns into insults against a person or group, report and ignore. The mods have done a good job of taking care of patterns of behavior, as well as individual posts, which matters a lot.

I've seen a few salty comments from them, but they're human. Nothing I needed to respond to with anything more than facts, and no moderation required.

I just keep in mind how often I have perceived things wrongly. It required learning to drop grudges. Carrying a real grudge is bad enough, but carrying a fake grudge based on a misunderstanding seems like a supremely futile endeavor.

Also, I guess I committed a social faux pas by not correcting an obvious misunderstanding where the word flailing was misread as failing. I really should have worked harder to figure out how to correct that. Any response to the entire post which revealed the misunderstanding seemed counterproductive at the time, and I quickly forgot the whole thing.

ETA: I guess I should have read all the way to the end. This is, in part, about me. The "undignified" comment that you made was against women speaking up for themselves. I found it classically sexist, deliberately inflammatory, and when it seemed to go unmoderated for some time, I spoke up. That attack has a long and sordid history, and we still see how pervasively it discriminates against women in the treatment of female Senators. It's crucial to institutional sexism, in fact. Perhaps I should have said that at the time; I suspect I did, in the rest of my post, after getting your attention.


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28 Jul 2017, 9:56 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
LMAO!

First of all, someone calling someone out on their BS isn't "trolling." Trolling is not just when you don't like what someone said to you, particularly if you were being an a-hole too in order to attract that comment or argument.

Second:
You think there's an age limit on someone getting pissed off with another, and telling them exactly what they think of their post? Or that YOU get a pass from that just for being a certain age yourself?

Welcome to the real world, or do you insist on being wrapped in cotton wool just because baby isn't old enough to be told where to go by a big bad grownup who is calling you out on your BS?

Also, have you forgotten that people who are currently "middle aged adults" were the original punk generation who rejected polite convention? Even though life moves them on, why should they put away the idea that they will speak out on someone's BS if they see BS?

I don't have to act like a blue-haired granny. If I see someone being a little s**t I don't care if they're 13, 30 or 93, I will tell them to eff off. I don't care WHAT age they are and you shouldn't care what age I am. And it's not "trolling" to call someone out on their BS. That's not an age issue, that's calling someone out on their BS, I don't care who you are.

Frankly IT'S ME who has been bullied by one of the younger members here, who has been vicious to me and completely disrespectful in a way that should have had the parents warning that person. I've been the one repeatedly harassed with belittling comments by a young member here.

Why should my age mean I'm all lavender doilies, being polite and dishing out candy? There is no age limit on speaking out. In the case of older versus young, we've earned the f*****g right to tell you what you haven't learned yet.

You'll find that out when you get here.

I'm a HUMAN BEING not an age.


Exactly! Couldn't have put it better myself. :thumleft:

I don't try to insult anyone; just the opposite, in fact. I do, however, reserve the right to tell someone that what they have written, or believe to be true, is just plain wrong. If that "offends" people here, well... I don't give a rat's rear end about their precious feelings. Get used to it.