Trump: transgender people will be banned from U.S. military
some soldiers would be trans phobic and some would not be that way.
there may be engendered a division between the forces based upon their general attitudes to the transgender people.
Yeah the moral factor was also used as a smokescreen over allowing blacks and women on the frontline.
Not sure if your remember the character of Klinger in MASH. If you could visualise having cross dressers in the US army in the 1950s then why not trannies in 2017?
There's speculation in the media – even here – about why this ban was announced so suddenly.
One of the prevailing theories is that President Trump is trying to shore up support in Congress for a bill to deliver a some of his campaign promises, including funding the border wall with Mexico. A group of congressional Republicans threatened to derail the bill if military funding for gender-reassignment surgeries wasn't withdrawn, which they consider a waste of taxpayer money. So they consulted with President Trump, who unexpectedly announced a ban on all transgender personnel serving in the military in any capacity.
Just a theory doing the rounds so far although it at least explains the sudden timing of such a ban, without waiting for the Pentagon's investigation on how allowing transgender personnel to enlist and serve affects military capability and cohesion, which was expected to be released later this year.
Personally I wonder if we'll see a "softening" of the ban at some point, allowing transgender personnel to continue serving but only if the military doesn't have to fund gender-reassignment surgeries ... at least until the Pentagon report is released. Sounds like a typical corporate negotiation tactic to me.
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One of the prevailing theories is that President Trump is trying to shore up support in Congress for a bill to deliver a some of his campaign promises, including funding the border wall with Mexico. A group of congressional Republicans threatened to derail the bill if military funding for gender-reassignment surgeries wasn't withdrawn, which they consider a waste of taxpayer money. So they consulted with President Trump, who unexpectedly announced a ban on all transgender personnel serving in the military in any capacity.
Just a theory doing the rounds so far although it at least explains the sudden timing of such a ban, without waiting for the Pentagon's investigation on how allowing transgender personnel to enlist and serve affects military capability and cohesion, which was expected to be released later this year.
Personally I wonder if we'll see a "softening" of the ban at some point, allowing transgender personnel to continue serving but only if the military doesn't have to fund gender-reassignment surgeries ... at least until the Pentagon report is released. Sounds like a typical corporate negotiation tactic to me.
Yeah this makes sense. Even Trump must have limits on how many minority groups he voluntarily ticks off. Also the US military where in the process introducing recruitment policies for transgender troops, this basically derailed all that work
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Trump denies ASD, bipolar and schizophrenics people because he thinks they're not fit to serve.
He denies trans people because he thinks they cost too much.
So, the question is whether Trump should be able to kick out soldiers based on their medical costs?
So, Trump is meaning to violate these contracts based on a "medical cost too much" rule that is not in these contracts.
This is standard military policy, it was only under the radical agenda of Obama that any of this was ever entertained and forced on the military
The president has the authority to make this decision because of any reason he wants, he is the Commander In Chief of the armed forces. Not congress, not the courts. I think if you need years of therapy, lifelong hormone treatments, and radical surgery then you are unfit to serve AND would incur far too much cost over the lifetime of your military career.
Honestly I do not think there should be different standards for men and women in the military(or police or firefighters) to begin with either, that's where the problem begins. Everyone should have to pass the same physical tests and meet the same standards. There is no lack of fit recruits to fill these positions which is why they can be selective. If Autism isn't allowed in the military then I think it is pretty silly that transgenderism would even be considered.
He sent a tweet, not an executive order, so it's not officially anything aside from another distraction from stalled Trumpcare, ongoing Russia probe, and especially the unexpected blow back he received from southerners by going after Jeff Sessions for carrying out his official duty. The rule with Trump is shaking out to be: don't believe anything he says until it's an official executive order.
"Cost" is already addressed by SCOTUS in numerous TITLE VII cases.
"We can't afford girl sports because they cost too much".
Trump will lose in court because he picked "cost" as the reason to reject people.
This is an interesting point. If he does sign an executive order I can see this argument holding weight in court, merely because while the President is in full control of military operations the office actually has no power to fund said military, all purse-string related issues are still the realm of congress-- this was a major issue pre-Constitution and shortly thereafter (whiskey rebellion). Also of note, the President's control over the military is not unlimited: the military still has to follow federal law unless specifically annulled in the legislation, and federal law has several anti-discrimination measures that could come into play.
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Defense Department to Trump on transgender ban: Not so fast
In a memo to service chiefs and commanders, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford, Jr. declared no changes to the policy until "the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance" -- which has not yet happened.
“In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect,” Dunford said in the memo obtained by Fox News. “As importantly, given the current fight and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions.”
But experts told Fox News that from a legal standpoint, Trump’s tweets for now have all the merit of a public service announcement.
In the short term, nothing changes until a policy is drafted or some type of formal modification is made to military regulations. Lawsuits cannot be filed, and transgender troops cannot be yanked out of service or denied health care benefits.
“Until formal guidance is issued, nothing is going to change,” one U.S. defense official told Fox News, adding that tweets don’t count as “formal guidance.”
Separately, the Navy announced it would continue to provide transgender individuals medical treatment.
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First let me say, the military does not reject transgendered individuals. It will reject transexuals. These are people who have undergone some type of sex "reassignment" surgery and/or are typically on hormone therapy. I personally don't have any moral issues with transexuals serving in the military, though it does raise some questions, for example...
1. If transexual individuals who require regular hormone therapy are permitted into the military, then why should people who require regular medication for other conditions be excluded? For example, people with hypothyroidism can't join the military. This is an easy to treat condition that merely requires the person take replacement thyroid hormone everyday, and have a blood test every few months. So if transexuals are permitted to join the military, people with hypothyroidism, and a number of other disorders that require medication should be permitted to join the military.
2. While there are plenty of positions in the military that don't require physical strength, it's definitely an asset when it comes to defense of the nation, and sometimes people in the military find themselves in combat situations whether they are a combat soldier or not. Because of this, the military has strength and fitness requirements for both males and females. Females obviously have less strength than males, and are banned from most combat positions because of this, though they still sometimes see combat. While female soldiers often serve honorably, and are just as integral to the success of the military as anyone, that they have less strength is not optimal. So the question is, being that stronger is better than being weaker in the military, is it unethical for someone who was born male (and stronger), and serving in the military, to intentionally weaken themselves with testosterone blockers in pursuit of a personal agenda, at the potential expense of the military's success in a combat theater?
2b. There is a sub question to the above, which I've often thought about, which is, what is the logic of rejecting weak males who don't meet male physical fitness requirements but who meet female physical fitness requirements?
2c. And this brings us to yet another question. Why are female soldiers not required to virilize themselves with testosterone if doing so would improve the performance of the military? I know the answer to this but I thought I would put the question out there anyway. The answer is two fold. First, it goes against social norms. And second, testosterone is actually expensive. The gel form can run $200 to $600 for a month supply. It would cost the military almost $1 billion dollars per year.
3. People on hormone therapy will go through withdrawal if there is an interruption in access to the hormones, and this can compromise the person's ability to function. Would it be ethical for the military to send an individual who relies on regular administration of exogenous hormones into a combat situation where the person may lose access to those hormones?
2. So the question is, being that stronger is better than being weaker in the military, is it unethical for someone who was born male (and stronger), and serving in the military, to intentionally weaken themselves with testosterone blockers in pursuit of a personal agenda, at the potential expense of the military's success in a combat theater?
2b. There is a sub question to the above, which I've often thought about, which is, what is the logic of rejecting weak males who don't meet male physical fitness requirements but who meet female physical fitness requirements?
The primary issue on whether a transexual, a female, ethnic or somebody with a medical/psychiatric condition is rejected is about managing risk on the battlefront. The underlying risk is based on deficits in strength, ability to function at a satisfactory level, communication or lack of ability to work in teams (the latter pertained to the real risk that somebody who was transgender might end up lynched). These barriers certainly might have applied in WWII 1945 or Korean War 1952 or even the 1960s with the Vietnam war. But don't apply in 2017. The military, navy and airforce are infact making an attempt to be more inclusive in order to beef up their ranks (despite Trump's declaration).
I have a 6foot4 brother who was rejected from the army on the basis of flat feet, I also have a cousin who was rejected from the airforce on the basis of a 0.01% flaw in his left eye after crossbow accident. This was back in the early 1980s. Today technology means that strength or eyesight is not as critical to operate weapons or be on the frontline. Women can operate just as well as men if they are fit. So I also don't see why somebody with Autism couldn't be given a role in military breaking codes or operating machinery.
2. So the question is, being that stronger is better than being weaker in the military, is it unethical for someone who was born male (and stronger), and serving in the military, to intentionally weaken themselves with testosterone blockers in pursuit of a personal agenda, at the potential expense of the military's success in a combat theater?
2b. There is a sub question to the above, which I've often thought about, which is, what is the logic of rejecting weak males who don't meet male physical fitness requirements but who meet female physical fitness requirements?
The primary issue on whether a transexual, a female, ethnic or somebody with a medical/psychiatric condition is rejected is about managing risk on the battlefront. The underlying risk is based on deficits in strength, ability to function at a satisfactory level, communication or lack of ability to work in teams (the latter pertained to the real risk that somebody who was transgender might end up lynched). These barriers certainly might have applied in WWII 1945 or Korean War 1952 or even the 1960s with the Vietnam war. But don't apply in 2017. The military, navy and airforce are infact making an attempt to be more inclusive in order to beef up their ranks (despite Trump's declaration).
I have a 6foot4 brother who was rejected from the army on the basis of flat feet, I also have a cousin who was rejected from the airforce on the basis of a 0.01% flaw in his left eye after crossbow accident. This was back in the early 1980s. Today technology means that strength or eyesight is not as critical to operate weapons or be on the frontline. Women can operate just as well as men if they are fit. So I also don't see why somebody with Autism couldn't be given a role in military breaking codes or operating machinery.
I am opposed to the flat out ban on people on the spectrum in the military. I think in many instances that certain people on the spectrum would make better soldiers than many NTs, as we tend to like order and tend to more often be rule followers.
Perhaps though the military doesn't want rule followers?
Yes, whenever straight white folks don't get their way that's the usual line to fall back on...
That's racist!
As for being "straight", that's perfectly normal (in the statistical sense that we make up the overwhelming majority, approx. 98% of people on the planet).
If the reason for this decision truly is "cost", I can think of a better way to reduce the U.S. military budget - just do what other maritime nations are doing, and have done, and scrap the carrier fleet. Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks to the latest Russian and Chinese missile and submarine technologies, and they are only ever used to murder people in small, defenceless nations in Africa and the Middle East that for reasons of convenience the U.S. Government has deemed to be holders of "weapons of mass destruction", or "supporters of terrorism", or some other such crappy BS.
Shh, be quiet, you're not allowed to say things like this anymore, or even think them. This is a thought-crime. It may be objectively true, yes, but you can't point that out, because too many people will be "triggered" and become upset.
Shh, be quiet, you're not allowed to say things like this anymore, or even think them. This is a thought-crime. It may be objectively true, yes, but you can't point that out, because too many people will be "triggered" and become upset.
Who would be upset by this? Everyone knows that men, on average, are larger and stronger than females. We are a sexually dimorphic species. It's when people start saying that one gender is better than the other for those physical differences that you get people complaining, for obvious reasons. There is no inherent value judgment in the average man being stronger than the average woman, just as there is no inherent judgement in the fact that women are the ones who bear the children. It's only a problem when people erroneously assign value judgements to those differences.
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