The Sally Anne test

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14 Aug 2017, 1:04 pm

But chimps, bonobos, and orangutans, seemed to pass the test (their eyes track the right way to anticipate the false belief of the other person/animal).

kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2017, 1:06 pm

Wolfmen might have trouble, though.... :mrgreen:

soloha
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14 Aug 2017, 1:51 pm

Chichikov wrote:

That test is for young children and children with ASD don't "fail it", they just tend to pass it at a later age. It tests the age that theory of mind starts to develop which is one of the milestones in development and autistic people tend to hit this milestone later.

Any adult failing the test must be severely mentally handicapped.

I failed it ... for a brief moment, at any rate.
Reflexively I thought "In the box" right before the commentator gave the answer. Then I thought "oh, duh, of course she would look in the basket.". I knew that ... once I gave it even minimal thought.

Either it was a mental hiccup, or it shows my natural tendencies when I am not applying what I have learned over the years ... even if it only takes a fraction of a second. I wonder.

I have had my therapist call me out ToM issues so I know it is at least a little bit of an issue for me.

I am not mentally handicapped.

Joe90
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14 Aug 2017, 2:17 pm

Why do I kind of find it disturbing to know that I belong to a group that is socially one step lower than people with Down's syndrome and monkeys?

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kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2017, 2:59 pm

But you are not a member of such a group, Joe.

You are the member of the "Joe" group.

SaveFerris
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14 Aug 2017, 3:01 pm

I'd rather be around monkeys that people

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SaveFerris
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14 Aug 2017, 3:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

But chimps, bonobos, and orangutans, seemed to pass the test (their eyes track the right way to anticipate the false belief of the other person/animal).

How did a monkey pass the Sally Ann test , how did they get past the language barrier? How did they adapt the test?

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kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2017, 7:30 pm

Probably through gestures.

naturalplastic
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14 Aug 2017, 7:52 pm

SaveFerris wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

But chimps, bonobos, and orangutans, seemed to pass the test (their eyes track the right way to anticipate the false belief of the other person/animal).

How did a monkey pass the Sally Ann test , how did they get past the language barrier? How did they adapt the test?

The article mentioned "direction of gaze" by apes in passing in the wiki article about testing human children.

Here is link to an article about a Yale study of rhesus monkeys.

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2005/03/23/psychologists-test-monkeys-theory-of-mind/

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14 Aug 2017, 9:51 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

SaveFerris wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

But chimps, bonobos, and orangutans, seemed to pass the test (their eyes track the right way to anticipate the false belief of the other person/animal).

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2005/03/23/psychologists-test-monkeys-theory-of-mind/

I wish they explained it better with diagrams / videos etc , I can't picture it :roll:

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naturalplastic
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15 Aug 2017, 1:20 pm

Yeah. It is a bit hard to follow. Will hafta re read it myself.

Long before I saw this thread (never heard of the Sally-Anne test before I saw this thread) I had read in places like Discover Magazine about observations of behavior by apes that showed a similar type of theory of mind. Ape A tricking ape B into revealing where ape B hid food for example. Ape A leaves the room, and then without warning suddenly returns to the room in time to catch ape B snacking on the hidden treats. And ape A kicks B's ass and takes the treats.

But I cant find the articles on the web at the moment.

Chichikov
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15 Aug 2017, 3:48 pm

Voxish wrote:

Thats not what meant. The bit about any one failing Sally Anne having a mental handicap. I delivered National Autistic Society SPELL training for care staff for a couple of years when I worked for a charity, of ouse I covered Sally Anne when doing my section on ToM. You would be amazed how many people struggled to remember the sequence of events which leads to the correct conclusion, If you can use two dolls and do it for real its easier, but even then I have seen people think about it. Perhaps they think there is a trick or some kind of dodge and they over think it. Try explaining the some of the 12 strange tales to them. Thats why I think they are of little value, I think they often tell more about someones ability to retain information than it does about predicting events or intentions. I used to religiously believe theory mind development, now I have my doubts, but hey, just my opinion.

So I say numerous things to which you simply reply "those" things are wrong and when I call you out you explain your comment only applied to a single thing I said and you wonder why you were misunderstood?

If adults are falling that test due to other issues around comprehension and not due to a lack of theory of mind then the failure isn't valid. As it tests theory of mind only results down to that are relevant, someone lacking English comprehension is irrelevant.

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16 Aug 2017, 8:42 am

naturalplastic wrote:

If you find a better explanation could you please share , Ta

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TheAvenger161173
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16 Aug 2017, 1:44 pm

I consider myself of Average intelligence. I failed the Sally Anne test. I was pretty shocked. That was one of the things that made me think that I was on the spectrum.

Voxish
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16 Aug 2017, 2:49 pm

http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/pa ... ofmind.pdf

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kdm1984
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29 Aug 2017, 7:32 pm

I just came across this test today. Passed it easily.

Should I now question my autism diagnosis? lol. Then again, I wasn't diagnosed until age 29.

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