Americas twin political cancers

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DarthMetaKnight
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16 Aug 2017, 12:02 pm

EzraS wrote:

So instead of saying alt left big D should have said antifa. Personally I like alt left better.

The Spanish Inquisition would probably call itsself chemotherapy if it existed today.

Of course it would. All reactionary political movements consider themselves to be chemotherapy.

You know that objective reality exists right? You don't have to roll your eyes at everyone who believes in something. Some "extremist" groups are better than others.

The Spanish Inquisition blamed Jews and Muslims for the problems that were actually caused by monarchy ... so they were evil.

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 12:05 pm

rick sanchez wrote:

200 years ago the "rule of law" allowed me to own other people. It allowed me to beat my wife and children.

30 years ago it allowed South Africa to jail a black person for having a intimate relationship with a white person.

This only changed because people were willing to "stand against hate."

So... in other words it came, not through violence.... through *changing* the rule of law....

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DarthMetaKnight
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16 Aug 2017, 12:06 pm

EzraS wrote:

Drake wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Radicalism, left and right, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

And the fact that the KKk and Neo-Nazis were able to be so open.....worries me.

They always have been able to be open. They were just never given attention before.

Bingo.

The Nazis aren't succeeding because the left drew attention to them. They're succeeding because Trump empowered them. He learned all of their code words. He subtly winks at white nationalists in every goddamn speech.

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kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2017, 12:08 pm

You would hope that would be the case....and I wish this was the case. I'm a person who likes to take the relatively "virtuous/civilized" approach to things in general.

But, unfortunately, historically, change has been effected through both "civilized" and "uncivilized" means.

There had to be a little Malcolm X amid a great amount of Martin Luther King.

rick sanchez
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16 Aug 2017, 12:12 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

rick sanchez wrote:

So... in other words it came, not through violence.... through *changing* the rule of law....

The process of that change happens in a lot of ways, but what it comes down to is that those in power respond to the threat of losing power by changing as little as possible to accommodate the most active/loud/violent. There is no concern for right or wrong in this process.

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 12:50 pm

rick sanchez wrote:

What happens if that vigorous posturing turns into actual results, like a military coupe or a collapse of social order and martial law? Does that often lead to much of anything good?

Keep in mind we contemplate this as we key our ideas on Iphones or laptops, possibly sipping Starbucks latte's and I doubt many of us in the comments have lived in countries that have enjoyed the process of unstable governments getting changed out that way. I'd love to hear some people from Egypt, Tunisia, Chile, Bosnia, etc. weigh in on whether that sounds like a good way to get things done right now in the US.

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16 Aug 2017, 1:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

rick sanchez wrote:

What happens if that vigorous posturing turns into actual results, like a military coupe or a collapse of social order and martial law? Does that often lead to much of anything good?

I made no claims about the process being fair or good. I believe we are in an active collapse, and how we deal with it will determine what the result will be.

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Keep in mind we contemplate this as we key our ideas on Iphones or laptops, possibly sipping Starbucks latte's and I doubt many of us in the comments have lived in countries that have enjoyed the process of unstable governments getting changed out that way. I'd love to hear some people from Egypt, Tunisia, Chile, Bosnia, etc. weigh in on whether that sounds like a good way to get things done right now in the US.

Whether it is a good way is immaterial, it is how it works. Our system has been relatively stable compared to many. The reverse side of this is that those who are the "most active/loud/violent", will be used by people in power as a way to increase or maintain their power. This is often results in large scale racism, inequality and occasionally genocides.

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EzraS
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16 Aug 2017, 1:30 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So instead of saying alt left big D should have said antifa. Personally I like alt left better.

The Spanish Inquisition would probably call itsself chemotherapy if it existed today.

Indeed.

The Spanish Inquisition comparison was satirical.

kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2017, 1:31 pm

I would like that sort of input, too.

Many of us (including me) are pretty far from the fray.

rick sanchez
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16 Aug 2017, 1:33 pm

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16 Aug 2017, 4:38 pm

Drake wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Antifa isn't a cancer. It's chemotherapy.

Chemotherapy can be harsh. Sometimes you lose all of your hair, but it's better than dying of cancer.

I wish there was an emoticon for clapping hands.

That's not what you want the hands to be doing. More like this:

It's just more mental gymnastics to justify an ends justify the means stance and put a positive spin on it.

This is more like using chemotherapy to prevent ever getting another zit, not cancer. It's doing more damage than the occasional zit ever could if left alone.

No, that's not what I want hands to do.

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cyberdad
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16 Aug 2017, 5:10 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

rick sanchez wrote:

So... in other words it came, not through violence.... through *changing* the rule of law....

I don't recall George Washington sitting with King George III singing "Kumbaya my lord" before America was granted independence from Great Britain. .

There was plenty of blood spilled and Washington was referred to as a terrorist by the British crown

rick sanchez
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16 Aug 2017, 5:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:

George Washington sitting with King George III singing "Kumbaya my lord" before America was granted independence from Great Britain.

Oh yeah, I have this track on wax cylinder.

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 6:38 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Is there a situation equivocal to the relatively cushy lives we have now, with national independence well established and a largely functional exchange of ideas, where violence was still required?

rick sanchez
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16 Aug 2017, 6:53 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Is there a situation equivocal to the relatively cushy lives we have now, with national independence well established and a largely functional exchange of ideas, where violence was still required?

Relatively cushy life for whom?

It seems a common occurrence for posts to include these broad statements of a condition and then draw a misleading conclusion from it.

Anytime there is great inequality, there are people who will find an excuse for violence. The inequality can in any aspect: power, freedom, lifestyle.

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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Aug 2017, 7:19 pm

rick sanchez wrote:

Welfare recipients of today are living better than the Rockefellers by absolute standards. That's what I mean. You'd probably have zero interest in looking but there's a country to the south of us, called Venezuela, that's practically burning down as a country. Relatively speaking, in the scheme of world affairs, we have no clue what hardship is. Those who do, mostly the rural poor, probably don't match the victimhood hierarchy exactly.

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