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Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2017, 2:00 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is no Alt Left. It's what the Alt Right and their apologists call anyone countering their side, so as to claim there's some sort of moral equivalency.


Alt right apologists meaning everyone else on the right.

There are extremist on the left. And they exude self-righteousness rather than actual morality.


No, nobody has accused all conservatives of being Alt Right, especially since there have been plenty of brave conservatives who have criticised both the real Alt Right and Trump over this.


Correction. Most not all. Those who say what the ctrl-left dictates what they are supposed to say, escape being labled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists et al. Sometimes.

Trump denounced neo nazis very directly, but it was dictated that he didn't do it soon enough or did it the wrong way or said something else that cancelled it out. So his denouncing neo nazis is of course null and void. Anyone else is also subject to the same judgement.

Those who do not agree with and support ctrl-left dictation run the risk of being labeled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists. Perhaps someday to the point where they lose their jobs etc over such scarlet lettering for not complying.

It's really not at all hard to figure out.


But Trump changed his tune just today. He blamed the counter protesters for attacking the Alt Right first, and even claimed not everyone at that rally were white nationalists (so marching with tiki torches while chanting Nazi slogans evidently doesn't make one a Nazi).
Plenty of Republicans have stood with the counter protesters. Nobody on the left would dream of calling these people Nazis. But if one defends the Alt Right, and claim that there is a moral equivalency between them and those who speak out against them, or even defends the Alt Right, then it's tough not to equate them with said Alt Right.


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Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2017, 2:10 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Trump is saying that anybody who opposes National Socialism on American soil is every bit to blame is the National Socialists.

Do you have a solitary shred of evidence that Trump is a National Socialist?


Can you give me any solid reasons why he would try to legitimize National Socialism in the USA if he were not a true believer of that ideology?

Anybody who refuses to call out the evils of Nazi ideology in his position of power is clearly a supporter of National Socialism. The neo Nazis were preaching about genocide and encouraging it. You can't say it was a lone wolf in a car when an entire Nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut.

Any other recent president would have taken a clear stand against the Nazis. Trump is trying to embolden and empower them instead.


Trump publicly denounced neo-nazis. The only complaint is that he did not do so within a 48 hour time frame.

And where has the neo nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut?

She's obviously not fat:

Image

So where did you obtain this info please?


I've seen on Yahoo news how the Alt Right attacked the murder victim as a "fat, childless slut."
Why are you giving that collective waste of working organs the benefit of the doubt? Even if I hadn't seen the meme in a news article myself, I would never have doubted that they had said such a reprehensible thing about this woman, as they are reprehensible excuses for human beings.


It's not a matter of giving them the benefit of the doubt to me. It's just wanting substantiation. Like if this is true, it's very significant, so I want to make sure it's true because of that. Which I did. They really slit their throats by publishing that.

But a question still remains as to how many they are. Are others being unfairly lumped in with them?

To me that's the counter danger the neo nazis pose. People being lumped in with them wholesale by way of ctrl-left criteria.

Really it can easily be boild down to the simple verdict of, "If you're not one of us, you are one of them".


"Oh, it's true, it's damn true," as Kurt Angle would say. I think it was the Daily Stormer, which is a major Alt Right periodical, that had run this, though I might have gotten the source wrong.
As for unfairly lumping people together over this: well, that's the risk they run for belonging to groups whose whole ideology revolves around hate. If it's just ordinary, run-of-the-mill conservatives that you're worried about, well they shouldn't have to worry, as they don't preach reprehensible things like the Alt Right does.


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EzraS
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16 Aug 2017, 2:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is no Alt Left. It's what the Alt Right and their apologists call anyone countering their side, so as to claim there's some sort of moral equivalency.


Alt right apologists meaning everyone else on the right.

There are extremist on the left. And they exude self-righteousness rather than actual morality.


No, nobody has accused all conservatives of being Alt Right, especially since there have been plenty of brave conservatives who have criticised both the real Alt Right and Trump over this.


Correction. Most not all. Those who say what the ctrl-left dictates what they are supposed to say, escape being labled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists et al. Sometimes.

Trump denounced neo nazis very directly, but it was dictated that he didn't do it soon enough or did it the wrong way or said something else that cancelled it out. So his denouncing neo nazis is of course null and void. Anyone else is also subject to the same judgement.

Those who do not agree with and support ctrl-left dictation run the risk of being labeled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists. Perhaps someday to the point where they lose their jobs etc over such scarlet lettering for not complying.

It's really not at all hard to figure out.


But Trump changed his tune just today. He blamed the counter protesters for attacking the Alt Right first, and even claimed not everyone at that rally were white nationalists (so marching with tiki torches while chanting Nazi slogans evidently doesn't make one a Nazi).
Plenty of Republicans have stood with the counter protesters. Nobody on the left would dream of calling these people Nazis. But if one defends the Alt Right, and claim that there is a moral equivalency between them and those who speak out against them, or even defends the Alt Right, then it's tough not to equate them with said Alt Right.


Well that's the thing. Not that he was given a shred of credit for succinctly denouncing neo nazis. He cancelled it out. Basically anything he says can and wil be held agaist him. That's how it works.

Why shouldn't counter protestors should be blamed for attacking, if they attacked?

And it seems quite probable many were there just as spectators.

Did he say not everyone holding a tiki torchs and chanting nazi slogans, or is that just being implied?

Is it that the thing was strictly limited to either protestors or counter protesters and spectators were nonexistent?



EzraS
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16 Aug 2017, 2:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Trump is saying that anybody who opposes National Socialism on American soil is every bit to blame is the National Socialists.

Do you have a solitary shred of evidence that Trump is a National Socialist?


Can you give me any solid reasons why he would try to legitimize National Socialism in the USA if he were not a true believer of that ideology?

Anybody who refuses to call out the evils of Nazi ideology in his position of power is clearly a supporter of National Socialism. The neo Nazis were preaching about genocide and encouraging it. You can't say it was a lone wolf in a car when an entire Nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut.

Any other recent president would have taken a clear stand against the Nazis. Trump is trying to embolden and empower them instead.


Trump publicly denounced neo-nazis. The only complaint is that he did not do so within a 48 hour time frame.

And where has the neo nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut?

She's obviously not fat:

Image

So where did you obtain this info please?


I've seen on Yahoo news how the Alt Right attacked the murder victim as a "fat, childless slut."
Why are you giving that collective waste of working organs the benefit of the doubt? Even if I hadn't seen the meme in a news article myself, I would never have doubted that they had said such a reprehensible thing about this woman, as they are reprehensible excuses for human beings.


It's not a matter of giving them the benefit of the doubt to me. It's just wanting substantiation. Like if this is true, it's very significant, so I want to make sure it's true because of that. Which I did. They really slit their throats by publishing that.

But a question still remains as to how many they are. Are others being unfairly lumped in with them?

To me that's the counter danger the neo nazis pose. People being lumped in with them wholesale by way of ctrl-left criteria.

Really it can easily be boild down to the simple verdict of, "If you're not one of us, you are one of them".


"Oh, it's true, it's damn true," as Kurt Angle would say. I think it was the Daily Stormer, which is a major Alt Right periodical, that had run this, though I might have gotten the source wrong.
As for unfairly lumping people together over this: well, that's the risk they run for belonging to groups whose whole ideology revolves around hate. If it's just ordinary, run-of-the-mill conservatives that you're worried about, well they shouldn't have to worry, as they don't preach reprehensible things like the Alt Right does.


Like I said I confirmed its validity and that they slit their throats by publishing it. It was the Daily Stormer and their hosting service GoDaddy pulled the plug on them immediately.

I'm not talking about belonging to a group. People can't be lumped in with what they categorically belong to.

But there's the age old draconian tyranny of the threat of being unfairly labeled as a collaborator, sympathizer, whatever. It already exists to some degree from what I've seen.



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16 Aug 2017, 12:41 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm still reeling from the revelation that the ACLU was on the 'Nazi's side of this twice here - not only before the event in bringing the authority of a federal judge behind their event permit but also after the event admitting that the police wall vanished at a certain point, not as if to allow the melee that ensued - there was nothing else that could have happened when they pulled the shield wall out.


The ACLU view is that the 1st amendment is a priority over pretty much everything. They successfully supported the National Socialist Party Of America right to march with swastikas in a Chicago suburb where 1 of 6 residents was Holocaust survivors back in the '70's.


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16 Aug 2017, 4:31 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Trump is saying that anybody who opposes National Socialism on American soil is every bit to blame is the National Socialists.

Do you have a solitary shred of evidence that Trump is a National Socialist?


Can you give me any solid reasons why he would try to legitimize National Socialism in the USA if he were not a true believer of that ideology?

Anybody who refuses to call out the evils of Nazi ideology in his position of power is clearly a supporter of National Socialism. The neo Nazis were preaching about genocide and encouraging it. You can't say it was a lone wolf in a car when an entire Nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut.

Any other recent president would have taken a clear stand against the Nazis. Trump is trying to embolden and empower them instead.


Trump publicly denounced neo-nazis. The only complaint is that he did not do so within a 48 hour time frame.

And where has the neo nazi movement celebrated the heinous bloodshed and referred to the dead woman as a fat useless slut?

She's obviously not fat:

Image

So where did you obtain this info please?


I've seen on Yahoo news how the Alt Right attacked the murder victim as a "fat, childless slut."
Why are you giving that collective waste of working organs the benefit of the doubt? Even if I hadn't seen the meme in a news article myself, I would never have doubted that they had said such a reprehensible thing about this woman, as they are reprehensible excuses for human beings.


It's not a matter of giving them the benefit of the doubt to me. It's just wanting substantiation. Like if this is true, it's very significant, so I want to make sure it's true because of that. Which I did. They really slit their throats by publishing that.

But a question still remains as to how many they are. Are others being unfairly lumped in with them?

To me that's the counter danger the neo nazis pose. People being lumped in with them wholesale by way of ctrl-left criteria.

Really it can easily be boild down to the simple verdict of, "If you're not one of us, you are one of them".


"Oh, it's true, it's damn true," as Kurt Angle would say. I think it was the Daily Stormer, which is a major Alt Right periodical, that had run this, though I might have gotten the source wrong.
As for unfairly lumping people together over this: well, that's the risk they run for belonging to groups whose whole ideology revolves around hate. If it's just ordinary, run-of-the-mill conservatives that you're worried about, well they shouldn't have to worry, as they don't preach reprehensible things like the Alt Right does.


Like I said I confirmed its validity and that they slit their throats by publishing it. It was the Daily Stormer and their hosting service GoDaddy pulled the plug on them immediately.

I'm not talking about belonging to a group. People can't be lumped in with what they categorically belong to.

But there's the age old draconian tyranny of the threat of being unfairly labeled as a collaborator, sympathizer, whatever. It already exists to some degree from what I've seen.


As a matter of fact, those on the right who have spoken out against Alt Right racists are being praised for their courage. It's those right wingers who are remaining oddly silent who are raising suspicions - and rightly so.


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Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2017, 4:34 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is no Alt Left. It's what the Alt Right and their apologists call anyone countering their side, so as to claim there's some sort of moral equivalency.


Alt right apologists meaning everyone else on the right.

There are extremist on the left. And they exude self-righteousness rather than actual morality.


No, nobody has accused all conservatives of being Alt Right, especially since there have been plenty of brave conservatives who have criticised both the real Alt Right and Trump over this.


Correction. Most not all. Those who say what the ctrl-left dictates what they are supposed to say, escape being labled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists et al. Sometimes.

Trump denounced neo nazis very directly, but it was dictated that he didn't do it soon enough or did it the wrong way or said something else that cancelled it out. So his denouncing neo nazis is of course null and void. Anyone else is also subject to the same judgement.

Those who do not agree with and support ctrl-left dictation run the risk of being labeled a nazi sympathizer, nazi apologists. Perhaps someday to the point where they lose their jobs etc over such scarlet lettering for not complying.

It's really not at all hard to figure out.


But Trump changed his tune just today. He blamed the counter protesters for attacking the Alt Right first, and even claimed not everyone at that rally were white nationalists (so marching with tiki torches while chanting Nazi slogans evidently doesn't make one a Nazi).
Plenty of Republicans have stood with the counter protesters. Nobody on the left would dream of calling these people Nazis. But if one defends the Alt Right, and claim that there is a moral equivalency between them and those who speak out against them, or even defends the Alt Right, then it's tough not to equate them with said Alt Right.


Well that's the thing. Not that he was given a shred of credit for succinctly denouncing neo nazis. He cancelled it out. Basically anything he says can and wil be held agaist him. That's how it works.

Why shouldn't counter protestors should be blamed for attacking, if they attacked?

And it seems quite probable many were there just as spectators.

Did he say not everyone holding a tiki torchs and chanting nazi slogans, or is that just being implied?

Is it that the thing was strictly limited to either protestors or counter protesters and spectators were nonexistent?


Had Trump just stopped at attacking the Nazis, everyone would have been satisfied. There is definitely a suspicion of where Trump's loyalties lay, as he had courted those very people marching for hate during the last election.


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16 Aug 2017, 4:46 pm

What a pathetic ill disguised smoke screen. He must think the American public are as stupid as he is (I most certainly know you are not) :cry: :roll: :(


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16 Aug 2017, 4:56 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What scares me in all of this - this is dealing with not just thugs but also public figures, with police forces at their disposal, who only believe in rule of law when it fits their ideological leanings. That thought scares me much more than any alt-right or Antifa skirmishing in the park because it says something profound about the current state of decay that our system is in, that is the termites just chewed through a rotten support.


Gosh, you are so right. The Alt-right is nothing compared to a racist who commands a military and has access to nuclear weapons.


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16 Aug 2017, 5:02 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
I am also scared about that, as well. We agree on something.


Not sure at all that you caught that. I'm referring to the mayor and governor who turned a demonstration and counter-demonstration into a bloody riot - to best anyone can tell on their own volition.


yeah...it is pretty stupid to blame these guys for the violence of the Nazis. The Nazis have repeatedly threatened violence to those who oppose them and the races that they hate.


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Last edited by rick sanchez on 16 Aug 2017, 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Aug 2017, 5:10 pm

I wish the people who believe those who are not white are lesser would just come out and say so. Trump compared the statue of Lee to that of Washington, but Lee wanted to split America, Washington wanted to unite it. They were not on the same side with regard to race issues.



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16 Aug 2017, 6:09 pm

rick sanchez wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What scares me in all of this - this is dealing with not just thugs but also public figures, with police forces at their disposal, who only believe in rule of law when it fits their ideological leanings. That thought scares me much more than any alt-right or Antifa skirmishing in the park because it says something profound about the current state of decay that our system is in, that is the termites just chewed through a rotten support.


Gosh, you are so right. The Alt-right is nothing compared to a racist who commands a military and has access to nuclear weapons.


Yep. The pigs are not on our side when they tear gas peaceful protesters one day and then pit Nazis against anti-Nazis the next.



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16 Aug 2017, 7:31 pm

The Daily Stormer had to move their domain after they published an article about Heather Heyer calling her a "fat childless slut".

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/heather-h ... ille-nazi/



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16 Aug 2017, 7:47 pm

This is an interesting newsvideo by Elle Reeve who joined Chris Cantwell at the protests in Charlottesville to cover them for VICE.

VICE

At 20 minutes Cantwell says that the driver of the car was justified, that "the stupid animals didn't know how to get out of the way."



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16 Aug 2017, 7:55 pm

And they let these people stay out of a jail cell?



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16 Aug 2017, 7:56 pm

I find this Reeve girl to be quite impressive. She jumped right in the van with all those guys to get some of the interview and Cantwell himself is a bit scary.