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Why are Christian leaders siding with Trump?

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Shahunshah
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24 Aug 2017, 4:13 am

Issues like abortion, teaching prayer in school, drugs, same sex marriage I guess. Some Christian groups like Catholics and Mormons have held out against Trump.



Marknis
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24 Aug 2017, 8:53 am

Chronos wrote:

Most jews are secular but religious jews have varying levels of adherence to the OT, often more so than christians. Many christians consider the laws in the OT optional and really only focus on Adam and Eve, the 10 commandments, and the part that they think says being gay is a sin (in reality it just condemns cross dressing and sex between men, rape and inhospitality).

One reason even the most religious jews don't follow the OT exactly is because to do so would require reinstatement of the religious establishments that were in place before the diaspora, for example, a temple at which animal sacrifices could be made, religious courts with judicial authority in the land to exercise capitol punishment, and priests (kohanim/cohens). The kohanim (priestly class) is a special class in judaism, who are said to be the patrilineal descendants of Aaron, and ordained by God. Though this is an inherited status, it an be lost permanently in a variety of ways and cannot be re-established. It's said that a few known valid kohanim lines still exist among certain hassidic/haredi sects but no one is so sure as to have them perform in their full capacity as priests.


Pretty much what Bible Belters do. They selectively quote the bible. They uphold the "A man shall not lie with a man" verse but dodge the verses that essentially say "Don't shave your face", "Don't lie with a woman during her period", "Kill your child if he/she talks back at you", "Don't eat pork", "Don't eat shellfish", "Slavery is fine", and "Don't plant two different kinds of seed in the same field or wear clothes woven of two different kinds of material".

I guess everyone in the Bible Belt is going to Hell.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 Aug 2017, 9:25 am

Most specific things from Mosaic law and subsequent Old Testament law are by, for, and about the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews, which should be obvious to the most casual observer, non-believer and believer both. As to why some were so drastic, and they were directed to kill entire societies, that's a question which has to be answered by them, the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews - I'm a Gentile, it's not my problem; and if I tried to answer for them it would be cultural appropriation and that's wrong to do. What I will say is that I've been told the laws were of several distinct types, civil, ceremonial, spiritual, and moral; with those specific civil and ceremonial laws having gone defunct with the end of the original Jewish religious government. Now, the thing to do with that is to discern which specific law is of which category. As far as generalized cause and effect moral behavior and misbehavior issues raised in Old Testament those are pretty much universal to humanity no matter what your religion or not religion.


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24 Aug 2017, 10:11 am

Marknis wrote:
Chronos wrote:

Most jews are secular but religious jews have varying levels of adherence to the OT, often more so than christians. Many christians consider the laws in the OT optional and really only focus on Adam and Eve, the 10 commandments, and the part that they think says being gay is a sin (in reality it just condemns cross dressing and sex between men, rape and inhospitality).

One reason even the most religious jews don't follow the OT exactly is because to do so would require reinstatement of the religious establishments that were in place before the diaspora, for example, a temple at which animal sacrifices could be made, religious courts with judicial authority in the land to exercise capitol punishment, and priests (kohanim/cohens). The kohanim (priestly class) is a special class in judaism, who are said to be the patrilineal descendants of Aaron, and ordained by God. Though this is an inherited status, it an be lost permanently in a variety of ways and cannot be re-established. It's said that a few known valid kohanim lines still exist among certain hassidic/haredi sects but no one is so sure as to have them perform in their full capacity as priests.


Pretty much what Bible Belters do. They selectively quote the bible. They uphold the "A man shall not lie with a man" verse but dodge the verses that essentially say "Don't shave your face", "Don't lie with a woman during her period", "Kill your child if he/she talks back at you", "Don't eat pork", "Don't eat shellfish", "Slavery is fine", and "Don't plant two different kinds of seed in the same field or wear clothes woven of two different kinds of material".

I guess everyone in the Bible Belt is going to Hell.

Reminds me of "25 things the Bible forbids but we do every day." We're all going to hell if you think about it.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Aug 2017, 10:12 am

I wish we were "going" somewhere....



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24 Aug 2017, 10:26 am

Shahunshah wrote:
Issues like abortion, teaching prayer in school, drugs, same sex marriage I guess. Some Christian groups like Catholics and Mormons have held out against Trump.


Where does the Bible say that dugs are bad? People in Biblical times got drunk all the time. Ham was cursed for life because he looked at Noah's shlong while Noah was wasted.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Aug 2017, 10:41 am

"Drugs" weren't thought of in the same way in Biblical times as they are in present times.



Marknis
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24 Aug 2017, 12:40 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Chronos wrote:

Most jews are secular but religious jews have varying levels of adherence to the OT, often more so than christians. Many christians consider the laws in the OT optional and really only focus on Adam and Eve, the 10 commandments, and the part that they think says being gay is a sin (in reality it just condemns cross dressing and sex between men, rape and inhospitality).

One reason even the most religious jews don't follow the OT exactly is because to do so would require reinstatement of the religious establishments that were in place before the diaspora, for example, a temple at which animal sacrifices could be made, religious courts with judicial authority in the land to exercise capitol punishment, and priests (kohanim/cohens). The kohanim (priestly class) is a special class in judaism, who are said to be the patrilineal descendants of Aaron, and ordained by God. Though this is an inherited status, it an be lost permanently in a variety of ways and cannot be re-established. It's said that a few known valid kohanim lines still exist among certain hassidic/haredi sects but no one is so sure as to have them perform in their full capacity as priests.


Pretty much what Bible Belters do. They selectively quote the bible. They uphold the "A man shall not lie with a man" verse but dodge the verses that essentially say "Don't shave your face", "Don't lie with a woman during her period", "Kill your child if he/she talks back at you", "Don't eat pork", "Don't eat shellfish", "Slavery is fine", and "Don't plant two different kinds of seed in the same field or wear clothes woven of two different kinds of material".

I guess everyone in the Bible Belt is going to Hell.

Reminds me of "25 things the Bible forbids but we do every day." We're all going to hell if you think about it.


Just look at the Baptist culture. They are reverse psychology personified. Where do you usually find them? At the dive bars and strip clubs.



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26 Aug 2017, 9:19 am

I also see in modern Chritianity a lot of blurring of definitions. Nowadays, Evangelical=Fundamentalist. If you look at the Greek origins of Evangelical, it translates to "Good News." From some of the quick research I did, I have no issue with the core tenets of the fundamentalists. The issue I have is the mean-spiritedness in which Scripture is interpreted and practiced. The issue, from what I can also see, is those conservative evangelicals that want to, to quote scripture, "be in this world, but not of this world," versus those that want to be totally isolated from this world at all costs



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26 Aug 2017, 12:52 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:


I don't think that all Christians are like this, but quite a few Christian leaders (especially American protestants) have been rather crazy lately.

I've noticed that American protestants generally love the Old Testament more than Jews do.

Lesson Learned: The people who say "New Atheism is over." are wrong.

Lots of people think that the "New Atheism" movement ended after Thunderf00t got booted from Freethought Blogs. In reality, it's not over. We still have a ton of work to do. Could we put aside all of this MRA drama until after the Trump presidency is over? That would be great.


American Protestants can usually be divided into two camps - mainline Protestants, and evangelicals. Evangelicals are more likely to be associated with the sort of populism and politically conservative sympathies, whereas mainline Protestants are more likely to be either left leaning, or prefer to stay out of politics all together (though there are politically conservative mainline churches). Another thing is the completely Anti-Biblical prosperity gospel that has so inundated modern evangelicalism that teaches God favors the elect with material wealth, thus making Trump even more appealing to them.


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26 Aug 2017, 1:08 pm

EzraS wrote:
How about a less anti-Christian explanation? I grabbed this at random, he's not someone I follow.



The guy justifies nativism, racism, LGBT-phobia, Islamophobia, etc, but with toned down language and a calm, steady voice, by generalizing that "all Christian" believe in these things. Also, despite all his talk about economic nationalism, he completely ignores the fact that those companies that have moved overseas, kicking American workers out into the street, are themselves run by politically conservative owners and management, and enabled by politically conservative politicians. Liberalism has little to do with that.


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DarthMetaKnight
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30 Aug 2017, 4:06 am

Look at this paranoid idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
VVV

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"We are gonna be shut up!"

Sadly, no.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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30 Aug 2017, 5:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Another thing is the completely Anti-Biblical prosperity gospel that has so inundated modern evangelicalism that teaches God favors the elect with material wealth,...
Now there's a theology that's an obvious distortion of truth if there ever was one.


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30 Aug 2017, 3:23 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Look at this paranoid idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
VVV

http://www.nova-magazine.net/jim-bakker-if-president-trump-is-impeached-christians-will-rise-from-the-shadows-to-start-another-civil-war-video/?utm_content=buffer58ab8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
"We are gonna be shut up!"

Sadly, no.


Sure, faith without works is dead, but genuine Christian works don't include violent uprisings for the sake of stopping that narcissistic buffoon getting himself kicked out of office.


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