Changes in Behavior

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There is a Sherlock (as in Sherlock Holmes) show series on Netflix, here is a link of their YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkp_CAX1eIc5k5SavzbhN5w/videos
Even my 9-year daughter watches the show. Well, I think most theoretical physicists are a bit like the Sherlock Holmes character.

There are two things about being a theorist: (1) controversy is a given, it's daily bread and butter, (2) you are bound to be ahead of your time. Like the character in the show: other people cannot understand a word about our explanations. But they just get wowed at our results. Quirky personality is part of the package, I guess.

Sorry, to borrow Dr. Seuss' words: "Why fit in when you were born to stand out?" That's what I tell my children: be a leader, not a follower. And I think that applies to all autistic people out there.

Well, I don't know about the high-minded debate, but... I'll put myself in your kid's shoes and tell it to you from my side. It's what I would be experiencing if I were her. Not necessarily what she's experiencing.

She spends all her time in school "being good." It's very important, it's what everyone wants, it makes her a "good girl." So she does it.

Doing it comes at a cost. By the time she gets home, she's tired and frustrated and doesn't feel good. She doesn't want to spend any more time performing for anyone else. She wants-- NEEDS-- to do what makes her happy, what soothes her nerves, what makes her feel better. If that requires tuning you out, so be it. And, well, tired little autistics have more meltdowns. Hell, tired BIG autistics have more meltdowns. Tired PEOPLE have more meltdowns.

As far as her sleep cycle being messed up... It might be anxiety, and it might just be a quest for a safe time and space to be herself. I know if I go many many weeks without much downtime, without a space where it's safe to turn the "NT suburban wife and mommy routine" off and just be me for a little bit, I can't sleep. I can't get to sleep, can't stay asleep, and eventually end up staying up all night just to read a book or watch the moon or do something that soothes me in peace.

I'm CERTAIN you have nothing but her best interests in mind. We're all doing the best we can down here. But modern therapy tells lies about treating autism. They say the best thing to do for us is make us appear as close to normal as possible. But WE'RE NOT NORMAL. We will never be "normal." No matter how closely we learn to approximate it, it's still just an act-- a cognitive process that eventually becomes reflexive as we learn to equate our entire self-worth with being "not-autism," but never becomes less exhausting.

That process produces mainstreamed kindergarteners. And 15-year-olds that are "indistinguishable." And 30-year-olds who are completely burned out and don't want to live any more.

My opinion. "Regression" is, oftentimes anyway, a child's way (autistic or not) of telling you that their nerves are stretched to the breaking point and they can't do it anymore.

That's funny. I remember my oldest playing JumpStart. Back before I decided that carping on no cable and only educational video games at least at home was an autistic behavior and let the normie import cable TV and the f*****g Wii. I note my oldest is an A/B student, almost completely independent at 16, and a hell of a critical thinker. The middle two, not so much. Looks like the baby might turn out OK... also looks like the baby may be a little autistic LOL.

Sorry, but what? I can't see a connection between what you're saying now and anything I've said (I'm not saying there isn't one, just that I can't find it.) Could you try to tell whatever it is you're trying to tell me in a different way? Or did you perhaps quote the wrong message?

You don't get it, do you? This thread started by PapaLoc50 is now turning into a thread about me.

See, the thing is, it's not about you. It's about me. Let me illustrate with two other of my favorite video clips. It's from two other scientists talking about the Richard Feynman they knew. (Dick Feynman was a Nobel Prize laurate, and was famous for solving the root cause of the Challenger space shuttle disaster.) One was Lenny Susskind, who some people would call the "Father of String Theory," and the other one was Murray Gell-Mann, who invented the concept of quarks and also won a Nobel Prize.



Susskind was all upbeat, joking and telling everyone how funny and friendly Dick Feynman was. On the other hand Gell-Mann obviously was turned off by Feynman and was deeply hurt. Two totally different experiences. You can't tell from these two video clips that they were talking about the same person.

That's the funny thing. Like you, Gell-Mann has not been able to figure out in his entire life what he did wrong to bug Feynman. I mean, for goodness sake, Gell-Mann was a fellow Nobel Prize winner, right? However, in Feynman's eyes, Gell-Mann was just an ordinary person.

These are not things that happen just for these three folks. (In my eyes, all three of them still behaved like 8-year-olds.) Once you get into the intellectual world, it's like that everywhere. I can't speak for Feynman, but here is what I think was going through his mind. He certainly was a caring person, otherwise he wouldn't have so many students that adored him, or a good friend like Susskind. What Feynman wanted was to see everyone do great things, I think. What comes across as Feynman's "gargantuan ego" was simply his way of telling others: "go and do great things." You will never be truly happy when you have to depend on other people's opinion about yourself. It's a choice: you get to choose to be upbeat and have fun like Susskind, or be hurt and resentful like Gell-Mann. It's pointless for Gell-Mann to try and win over the perception of Feynman about him. Instead, Gell-Mann should just have moved on and go do great things, and be confident about himself.

You're right, I don't get it. And you're also right about the other part; this seems to be getting seriously off topic so I think it would be wise for us to just agree that we don't understand each other (or at the very last that I don't understand you; that must be something we both agree on) and leave it at that. If there's still something you'd wish to point out to me or try to explain, how about using private messages (I'm pretty sure this site has those) so that we don't take too much space from the topic and take it even more off the subject.

Also, I apologize from the starter of the topic for straying from the point.

I think a lot of parents of children on the spectrum are quick to attribute behavioral problems to being on the spectrum, but children on the spectrum often go through the same phases of bad behavior that children who are not on the spectrum do.

Children her age who are not on the spectrum often wake up at night or very early, and get out of bed.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect any child to stay in bed until their parents get them, when they wake up early. The first thing I would wonder is, why is she waking up so early? Is she have difficulty sleeping or is she going to bed too early? Does she take a nap during the day that causes her to need less sleep at night?
Is she having bad dreams or anxiety, or does she wake up because she has to go to the bathroom and then can't get back to sleep? If she's waking up to urinate at night when she previously didn't, does she have a urinary tract infection? Is she waking up because she's hungry?

As for getting back to sleep, does she need a parent to help her get back to sleep? Or is getting back to sleep just out of the question because she's had enough sleep and is not sleepy anymore?

If it's the latter case, you might tell her she can play quietly in her room, and use the restroom if she needs to but she can't wander around the house and get into thing.

As for not listening, a lot of children that age who aren't on the spectrum do that as well. I would do the same thing I would do with a child who wasn't on the spectrum. Be imposing, interrupt what they are doing, and not let them return to it until they give me an answer. For example, I often have to turn my nephew's video off to get him to answer a question, because he becomes very engaged in it.

You know, you can come across overly arrogant and simplistic at times. My daughter has severe anxiety and depression and there is NO strategy that can just pull her out of it. NONE.

You need to remember that no two individuals are alike. Sometimes you will have the best idea for someone, sometimes someone else will. But this "I'm always right and I have all the answers" tone is really off-putting. We do values your ideas, but your sharing would be more effective if you could tone it down. The attitude that you can't or shouldn't do that because you are exceptional and trying to be a leader is simply wrong. True and effective leadership involves a good dose of humility. People can't be leaders unless someone else is actually inspired to follow, and that is where your word choices get you into trouble.


My apologies to the OP that the thread has gotten off track.

I think others have already made the comments I normally would do on behavior issues (regression happens, look for triggers, consider her stress level, etc) but I want to add one on sleep.

She may simply not be in need of as much sleep now. It isn't unusual for sleep needs to change depending on age and phase, and trying to get an awake and curious child to stay in one place for hours while others sleep is always going to be a losing battle. And, honestly, it can cause a lot of stress for the child if you try to force it. If she has books and light you might be able to get 30 minutes to an hour by encouraging her to "read" during these periods, but that is about it. You may need to stagger family sleep times so that she has the supervision she needs.