Questions: Personal Attacks

Post Reply New Topic

Hello. I often have trouble in some areas so I need to ask specific questions to get a fill of "what crosses the line and what doesn't?" I love rules and wish to follow them and be able to grasp when they are not being followed, to do that I have to ask questions, just reading the rules doesn't address the questions I have so please help me out a little.

I'm aware that you can't specifically say 'You are an idiot', 'You are arrogant' but can adjust that to..'Your opinion is idiotic'

What about, 'your actions are idiotic', 'you are trolling', 'you are being arrogant'. While it does address an individual, it describes their 'current' actions not the same as 'You are arrogant', 'You are an idiot'

Then i also saw another one that raises questions. 'must be a troll' In this context it does specifically address an individual, is the word 'troll' not considered negative?

And what about 'arrogant', 'ignorant'. Ignorant isn't necessarily negative and neither is arrogant.
Ignorance is a word used to shorten the phrase "you do not know", "you lack the knowledge", "You are misinformed"
Arrogance: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. same as "You think you know".

If i think of other questions I will ask them here.

Last edited by feeli0 on 09 Feb 2019, 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.: OPs request

In My Opinion, and generally speaking...

It is not a personal attack to:

a. Criticize, correct, or question the accuracy or validity of a claim or opinion, or the grammar, punctuation, and/or spelling in the statement of claim.
b. Point out invalid 'facts', flawed logic, or erroneous conclusions.
c. State an opposing claim or opinion.
d. Agree with someone who does a, b, and/or c.

It is a personal attack to:

e. Dismiss a claim based solely on the claimant's Age, Disability, Education, Genetic Heritage, National Origin, State of Pregnancy, Race (Color of Skin), Religion, Political Affiliation, Sex (M/F), Sexual Expression & Orientation (Gender), or "Time of The Month".
f. Use profanity and/or pejorative terminology to label someone.
g. To call into question or insult any aspect of a person that the person has little or no control over (i.e., Appearance, Intelligence, Parentage, Sanity, et cetera).
h. Agree with someone who does e, f, and/or g.

Note that this is an incomplete list, and that it is based on one man's 40+ years of training and experience in the public workforce (including the military).

Has that answered your question crimadella? Since you have been here but a short time and have started many a controversial thread, could I bring this definition to your attention and ask point blank if your purpose on this site is to troll?

I am not accusing, I am simply asking, as you have started a great many threads and that is not usual for a newcomer. Most people here are interested more in autism and how it affects their lives.

Yes, Crimadella, what is your purpose here? What do you hope to gain? What do you intend to contribute?

I'm not sure why you would even ask the question "am I'm a troll?". I want to understand the rules and already stated why, so I do not break them. I've only started 3 threads

1) (Gender Vrs Sex)for purpose of learning and understanding why common language recently changed.
2) (Left Vrs Right) Wasn't controversial in any kind of way, it was me sharing a video
3) (A world ran by aspes) also not controversial, curiosity because the community seemed very nice

"I am not accusing, I am simply asking, as you have started a great many threads and that is not usual for a newcomer. Most people here are interested more in autism and how it affects their lives."

I started threads to meet the members. My personal situation is I'm autistic and do not get to talk to anyone(no friends) I have also browsed in various help sections, I haven't posted in those sections but I have read. I'm here because I'm autistic and wish to communicate with others that have the same conditions. I'm trying to learn the rules so I do not get banned because I've encountered members that seemingly want to attack others within a community of autistic people(and other conditions) and have had moderators say something to me while others tend to be extremely rude and disrespectful(but within the rule guidelines). I'm here to communicate with others and find options to help myself, as I am 36, live with my mom and have tried to kill myself several times due to stressful conditions and fear of social interactions.

I seem to get along with most of the people here. A moderator asking me if I'm a troll honestly makes me feel a bit unwelcome. Should I leave?

Moderators cannot read every post and have to rely on people reporting posts where they feel a personal attack has happened. Obviously that doesn't always happen, so inappropriate comments slide through. Possibly this is what you are alluding to?

I realise now that you haven't started that many threads but you are very active and highly debate driven. You come across as very intelligent, verbally adept, and knowledgeable, so it struck me as odd that you should ask that question in your original post here. If you perceive that people are making personal attacks, and there appears to be no consequence for that, it is simply that the comment has not been reported.

I apologise if I have made you feel unwelcome, but I am doing my job as a mod as best as I know how. I guess as we get to know you better we will understand that debating such things as gender and left/right wing politics and SJW etc, is what you like to do.

In answer to your original query, the rules, as laid out in the forum rules, are pretty clear. Examples are given. If you feel a rule has been broken please use the report button. The mods here are not on all the time, we are few, and do get round to looking at all complaints.

The only issues I have really encountered here is Fnord, AspE & Sara.....(something)
I do love to discuss things with people and debate. I do have a hard time understanding specific things like rules, I have to ask the right questions in order to get an answer that allows me to understand. The only reason I need to even understand these 'personal attacks' rules is because of the three members I mentioned. As far as I can tell by reading the 'Troll' info you supplied, it strikes me as, that is mostly what these 3 members do when it comes to interactions with me and a few others. They seem to all use lots of sarcasm and disrespect intentionally to stir emotions when discussing things. I've even spoken with a moderator about that and the moderator claimed these members are well known for doing such things. My only failure in communicating with others here has been with these members, everyone else seems to be nice and also aware of how these 3 act. One moderator told me to ignore them, they have "strong" personalities.

I'm so active because my conditions have lead me to unemployment and complete isolation. The only people I even communicate with are my mom and people on this site. I do it to keep my mind off the situations I'm facing otherwise depression kicks in really hard.

I think the answers to your questions must lie with contextual information. That is where the report button would be helpful. Reading the rules on personal attacks within the context of the actual conversation, reading the tone, the history etc etc, all helps. It is sometimes hard to discern. Questions need to be asked. I'd rather deal with it as it happens, than try and lay out every possible permutation. Some people like to follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law. People that follow the letter of the law find ways to bend and twist things, or find work-arounds. Personally (not speaking as a mod) I am a spirit of the law person. What is the intent? Is the intent of a comment to disparage the other person? Or is the comment a joke meant to engender camaraderie?

To call the other members whose arguments you don't like 'arrogant' or 'stupid' is to attack them. This is fairly plain and simple. There is a difference in calling a person's actions stupid. You are attaching the adjective to the action not the person. To me a better communication would be 'when you do x, I feel y'. Thats from being a parent I guess and learning how not to crush my young one's souls, but at the same time bring some discipline. You seperate the action from the person. People who believe x are stupid, vs believing in x is a stupid thing to do - is a finer line and can be a backdoor way to insult someone. I would simply steer clear of insults.

Does that make it any clearer for you?

All you I can advise is you will run in to members who will have strong views opposing yours. I have had disagreements with Fnord & Kara when I was just a member but think we may have been able to put our difference behind us. I have not a ding dong with AspE. These members have strong opinions about about certain subjects and as long as they toe the line it's all good. It is only natural that some members get passionate and may take things personally and retaliate , it's human nature. If you think someone is personally attacking you report the the post and ask for clarification . Do not lower yourself to this style of debate if it's possible. Everyone here has issues and can be easily triggered to due to past experiences. Mostly it's not personal and due only to bad experiences. You don't have to answer any question you don't want to you , ignore any posters who you feel push your buttons. Most of the time we all get along but occasionally you can't help but point out that you think someone is incorrect ,as long as this is done respectufully - no harm no foul- I'm a hypocrite though as I'm just usually sarcastic.

This place is notorious for trolls and sometimes there are tell tale signs , we don't always get it right but better to be safe than sorry imo.

Well, thank you both. I'm perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me, even saying my idea is stupid or illogical.

Actually yes, that I understand, thank you.

Take it from me , skating the lines will get you into trouble , I have been banned for such reasons.

Just ignore personal insults ( report them if it continues ) and carry on the debate , it will piss them off more rather than out sarcasming them

Ok, lol.

To me it boils down to if a person has to talk about themselves and defend themselves, instead of the topic and the position they're maintaining, then things are getting personal.

On the bright side when people start getting personal with you, it's probably because they're losing the argument.

As a side note, I take accusing someone of being a troll pretty seriously. It's one thing if someone thinks you might be trolling regarding a particular thread or situation. It's another thing when someone is trying to brand someone else as an intentional troublemaker.

Also, anyone with autism should know that an autistic person can come off as a troublemaker without intending to be one. The more autistic someone is, the more likely that is to happen in my opinion.

Either way it's not going to be an issue anymore, just how things have played out I don't intend on posting anymore comments. I've made my last two today. I have one person to talk to through PM's, I'll just stick to that. We seem to communicate without any issues at all.

*So my conclusion is just the same as my life experience. Even on a site for people with autism I am an outcast. Talk about a blow to ones self esteem.

You're better off finding a better autism forum, because the mods here are dictators who defend trolls and ban the people who defend themselves.

Post edited by Benito Ferretlini

Last edited by SaveFerris on 06 Feb 2019, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.: personal attack