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Fnord
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24 Oct 2019, 4:36 pm

I'm Tired

I'm tired of being told what to think, what to feel, and what my motivations should be, and I'm even more tired of being told what someone else believes what my thoughts, feelings, and motivations really are. In both cases, the vast majority of the people telling me these things are very, very wrong.

I'm tired of left-wingers telling me that I should think about poor starving children in other countries, and that I should feel shame if I do not put all of my pay in a little orange box so that the total amount of money gathered in similar boxes all over the place will be used to purchase food for those poor, starving children. But where does that money really go? Why are those poor children still starving? Why are their pictures still being used after 50 years to guilt-trip today's children into giving up their lunch money?

I'm tired of right-wingers telling me that I should think about what God and Country expect from me, and why I should get all misty-eyed and feel a sense of pride whenever I hear some bastardized drinking song being played over a tin-plated loudspeaker. Sure, I love my country; I've even served honorably in it's Armed Forces. But why is it that every time I point out the gross misbehavior of certain government officials, some self-appointed patriot who bought a draft deferment will accuse me of being a traitor and threaten to deport me or send me to prison if I don't change my attitude?

I'm tired of people trying to shame me into believing that it is more important to coddle and comfort a person having a hard time than to instruct and enable them to solve their problems and get themselves out of the situations they find themselves in. Sure, if a person is completely incapable of helping themselves, then someone should step in and help them out instead. But why should it be me? Why can't those people who demand the loudest and longest that "Somebody ought to do something" get in there and do it themselves?

I'm tired of people accusing me of cheating or gaming the system somehow to achieve success, or of simply being "luckier" than they, when my success really comes down to nothing more than hard work and perseverance. Did they notice the evenings and weekends that I spent at the library with my textbooks and study groups, or were they too busy at the bars and clubs with their cocktails and drinking buddies to notice? Didn't they realize that constant study over a long period of time is more beneficial than one all-night cram session just before the final exam?

I'm tired of people putting me down for being truthful and factual, as if doing so is somehow an insult to those whose ideas of "truth" and "fact" have nothing to do with reality, or those to whom the statement "If you can measure it, it's real" seems as meaningless to them as "If you can imagine it, it's real" does to me. What is so troubling about reality that they seek to deny its inflexibility at every opportunity? There is but one reality, which is unchangeable no matter what your personal condition (i.e., age, ancestry, culture, gender expression, political affiliation, religion, sex, et cetera) may be.

I am tired of people trying to prove to me that only their opinions matter, especially when those opinions are based on their subjective feelings and emotions, rather than objective reality and facts. Even at my age, my own opinions have changed when new facts have been presented. Yet, when I present factual evidence that disproves someone else's opinions, they will (more often than not) hold on to their opinions and even accuse me of falsifying data or making up my own facts. Why can't they see that adhering to their opinions proves nothing other than their own ignorance and stubbornness?

Finally, I'm tired of having to constantly struggle to maintain my integrity. Everywhere I turn, someone is there to flatter me, bribe me, coerce me, or otherwise convince me to exploit other people's ignorance and gullibility for that someone's benefit. Why should I put my good reputation on the line just so that someone else can cheat some poor, ignorant schlub out of his dignity and life savings? Some people see honest men like me as tools to meet their selfish goals, and the hell with whomever gets hurt.

Sorry for this long rant. I'm soon to retire, and soon to enjoy the fruit of over 40 years of hard work. It's been a rough road, and the destination is in sight. Curse me or wish me luck -- I've already made my plans.



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24 Oct 2019, 4:43 pm

I feel you Fnord. I really do. I'm sick of this "You're either with me or against me!" crap.



Fnord
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24 Oct 2019, 4:44 pm

Thanks, T. I appreciate your support.


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Donald Morton
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24 Oct 2019, 4:49 pm

I certainly feel you Fnord, but I don't think that you'll need much in the way of luck. From what I can tell, you are of high integrity and good old common sense combined with a dogged determination. Live your truth in retirement as you have done and everything will work out just fine.


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Fnord
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24 Oct 2019, 4:50 pm

Thanks, DM. Your kind words mean a lot.


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TW1ZTY
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24 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm



I have a movie clip for everything. :heart:



flownawy
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24 Oct 2019, 6:35 pm

ME TOO



Fnord
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24 Oct 2019, 6:38 pm

Paul Edgecomb: “On the day of my judgement... when I stand before God... and he asks me why did I... did I kill one of his true... miracles... what am I going to say? That it was my job? It's my job.”

John Coffey: “You tell God the Father it was a kindness you done. I know you're hurting and worrying. I can feel it on you. But you ought to quit on it now. I want it to be over and done with. I do. I'm tired, boss. Tired of being on the road, lonely as a sparrow in the rain. I'm tired of never having me a buddy to be with... to tell me where we's going to, coming from, or why. Mostly, I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world... every day. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head... all the time. Can you understand?”

Paul Edgecomb: “Yes, John, I think I can.”

:cry: Best. Scene. Ever.


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cubedemon6073
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24 Oct 2019, 8:13 pm

Fnord wrote:
[color=black]I'm Tired

I'm tired of being told what to think, what to feel, and what my motivations should be, and I'm even more tired of being told what someone else believes what my thoughts, feelings, and motivations really are. In both cases, the vast majority of the people telling me these things are very, very wrong.



So am I.

Quote:
I'm tired of left-wingers telling me that I should think about poor starving children in other countries, and that I should feel shame if I do not put all of my pay in a little orange box so that the total amount of money gathered in similar boxes all over the place will be used to purchase food for those poor, starving children. But where does that money really go? Why are those poor children still starving? Why are their pictures still being used after 50 years to guilt-trip today's children into giving up their lunch money?


I think these are good questions.

Quote:
I'm tired of right-wingers telling me that I should think about what God and Country expect from me, and why I should get all misty-eyed and feel a sense of pride whenever I hear some bastardized drinking song being played over a tin-plated loudspeaker. Sure, I love my country; I've even served honorably in it's Armed Forces. But why is it that every time I point out the gross misbehavior of certain government officials, some self-appointed patriot who bought a draft deferment will accuse me of being a traitor and threaten to deport me or send me to prison if I don't change my attitude?


I get what you mean.

Quote:
I'm tired of people trying to shame me into believing that it is more important to coddle and comfort a person having a hard time than to instruct and enable them to solve their problems and get themselves out of the situations they find themselves in. Sure, if a person is completely incapable of helping themselves, then someone should step in and help them out instead. But why should it be me? Why can't those people who demand the loudest and longest that "Somebody ought to do something" get in there and do it themselves?




Quote:
I'm tired of people accusing me of cheating or gaming the system somehow to achieve success, or of simply being "luckier" than they, when my success really comes down to nothing more than hard work and perseverance. Did they notice the evenings and weekends that I spent at the library with my textbooks and study groups, or were they too busy at the bars and clubs with their cocktails and drinking buddies to notice? Didn't they realize that constant study over a long period of time is more beneficial than one all-night cram session just before the final exam?


I worked my ass off in college. I spent my time cracking the books as well. I was in study groups as well. I did a lot of reading and rereading. I read supplemental material and did practice problems. I struggled with coding at first. But, I spent hours reading, practicing and experimenting. I took my classes seriously. It wasn't party central for me. I didn't drink cocktails. I didn't go to the bar. I didn't party or do the whole pick up artistry or worry about getting a girlfriend or getting laid. And, I read and re-read their powerpoint slides. I did everything I was expected to do as a college student.

I even did two internships. My father got me the first one with a contractor for the fed government. As for the second internship, I will have to tell you I was able to get a job in my junior/senior year of college working for technical support. I had to fix student/faculty laptops and install software including the OS. And, I didn't get this job through hard work or through any action I did. I was able to fix my own computer which wasn't allowing the Office software to be installed. I had to come back the next day. I decided to do my windows updates and low and behold they were having issues installing as well. Yet, windows update gave me an error code. I looked it up using the search engine at the time (altavista?) and it gave me the instructions. I followed the instructions and my windows update worked. And, I realized what if this was the same issue that wasn't allowing office to be installed. Next day, I told the analyst what I did and explained the results. I explained my theory. He went to install office and lo and behold it installed. The supervisor over heard everything. I was offered a job there and took it.

I got my 2nd internship from this job. My supervisor knew someone. So, I did work. I had internships and all of this was not solely due to the things I did or didn't do but being in the right circumstances and the right time. So, for me luck did play a role in addition to my hard work. More then likely that happened with you as well. You're trying to discount luck and other factors and are trying to make it seem like it was solely your choices, perseverance and hard work when that is not completely true.

But, when I tried to do the job hunting myself it didn't work out so well which is a story unto itself. To this day, if I am to be employed in the IT field or anything else I need intricate guidance to do. I've told people in my life including you over the years that it is not my attitude but that I really don't get it and I need guidance. I need someone to be my Henry Higgins. And, not just what but why. I need specific steps and bigger picture spelled out. I'm always told to put things into perspective. No, I need the perspective given to me.

And, I did my research on how to get a job but when I read the stuff online it leaves more questions then answers. The material online is like reading the Handbook for the recently deceased on the movie Beetlejuice.

Quote:
I'm tired of people putting me down for being truthful and factual, as if doing so is somehow an insult to those whose ideas of "truth" and "fact" have nothing to do with reality, or those to whom the statement "If you can measure it, it's real" seems as meaningless to them as "If you can imagine it, it's real" does to me. What is so troubling about reality that they seek to deny its inflexibility at every opportunity? There is but one reality, which is unchangeable no matter what your personal condition (i.e., age, ancestry, culture, gender expression, political affiliation, religion, sex, et cetera) may be.


The thing is though and this is what whirling mind, others, and I tried to get across to you. You're not measuring reality itself but you're measuring your interpretation of reality that is taken in through your senses (information) and that is processed and transformed into data by your brain. How do we know that the reality that we both perceive to be true is the full reality that actually exists? But, the reality that is perceived is perceived by most everyone. Our bodies, minds, etc were created or evolved to perceive reality in the way we perceive it (depending upon conditions) and to interact with it in the way we interact way with it. And, these perceptions of a certain segment of reality is similar. The scientific method, mathematics, etc was developed by man who still had those observations similar to everyone else.

Time is linear. Is that true or are we simply experiencing time as linear and we evolved or were designed to experience time as linear?

Quote:
I am tired of people trying to prove to me that only their opinions matter, especially when those opinions are based on their subjective feelings and emotions, rather than objective reality and facts. Even at my age, my own opinions have changed when new facts have been presented. Yet, when I present factual evidence that disproves someone else's opinions, they will (more often than not) hold on to their opinions and even accuse me of falsifying data or making up my own facts. Why can't they see that adhering to their opinions proves nothing other than their own ignorance and stubbornness?


But, apparently we now know for certainly that Area 51 exists as the CIA affirmed it. And, UFOs apparently are now acknowledged by the government to be true. All of these things were denied for a long time and those who tried to say these things were true were considered crackpots.

And, data can be falsified and/or misrepresented. The scientific establishment are made up of people to with their own biases and those biases and grant money can influence how the experiments will go. There may or may not be a global conspiracies but people do sometimes have agendas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... _incidents

Quote:
Finally, I'm tired of having to constantly struggle to maintain my integrity. Everywhere I turn, someone is there to flatter me, bribe me, coerce me, or otherwise convince me to exploit other people's ignorance and gullibility for that someone's benefit. Why should I put my good reputation on the line just so that someone else can cheat some poor, ignorant schlub out of his dignity and life savings? Some people see honest men like me as tools to meet their selfish goals, and the hell with whomever gets hurt.


I'm tired of this BS to.

Quote:

Sorry for this long rant. I'm soon to retire, and soon to enjoy the fruit of over 40 years of hard work. It's been a rough road, and the destination is in sight. Curse me or wish me luck -- I've already made my plans.


Congrats! Enjoy your retirement!

But, I tried myself and could not do it. I needed guidance and got none. I did work hard. I did bust my ass. It was not party central for me. I didn't drink or enjoy cocktails. Maybe I ate at taco mac once in a while but that was about it. I was able to make a tic tac toe game with an AI player through sweat, crying, hard work, wanting to give up a few times, through someone's guidance and tips and tearing out my hair. I did that. I tried. It was not my attitude that screwed me up. I did not succeed where I did succeed solely on hard work even though I did work hard. It was not my life decisions that screwed me up. It was not partying or hanging out with the wrong crowd that screwed me up. If was a combo of differing things that were beyond my control and understanding. May I have a response please instead of being ignored.



Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 24 Oct 2019, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Magna
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24 Oct 2019, 8:15 pm

You deserve a long and happy retirement after working hard for 40 years. I wish you many happy years. Life is too short. Enjoy every day you have. Also, I would suggest retiring as soon as you can since none of us know what the future holds.

I know two people who retired between the ages of 65-67 and each died within 18 months after having grand plans to enjoy the "Golden Years". Screw the extra bit of monthly pension that might be had for working until that age. Enjoy as much time as possible.



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25 Oct 2019, 1:33 am

Fnord, I hope you know by now that I do value you the way you are. Factual, logical and open to facts and logic. Not a Heaven crying shoulder for sure but in my opinion expecting you to become one is most unrealistic.
I enjoy discussing with you. I find your life story most interesting and inspiring. A lot of times when I disagreed with you, I found you open to challenge your own beliefs after learning new facts. Other times, we could agree to disagree in most civil manner.

I don't mean to flatter you (or bribe you, or coerce you ;) ) but I want you to know that there is at least one WP member who values Fnord for being Fnord and who doesn't wish to turn Fnord into any kind of - no matter how also valuable - non-Fnord.


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25 Oct 2019, 3:00 am

Fnord wrote:
[color=black]I'm Tired

I'm tired of being told what to think, what to feel, and what my motivations should be, and I'm even more tired of being told what someone else believes what my thoughts, feelings, and motivations really are. In both cases, the vast majority of the people telling me these things are very, very wrong.


Quote:
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... rsion=NKJV

Why do you care what other people think? :scratch:

Quote:
Finally, I'm tired of having to constantly struggle to maintain my integrity. Everywhere I turn, someone is there to flatter me, bribe me, coerce me, or otherwise convince me to exploit other people's ignorance and gullibility for that someone's benefit. Why should I put my good reputation on the line just so that someone else can cheat some poor, ignorant schlub out of his dignity and life savings? Some people see honest men like me as tools to meet their selfish goals, and the hell with whomever gets hurt.

Why can't you just say no?
What will that cost you?

magz wrote:
I don't mean to flatter you (or bribe you, or coerce you ;) ) but I want you to know that there is at least one WP member who values Fnord for being Fnord and who doesn't wish to turn Fnord into any kind of - no matter how also valuable - non-Fnord.


If it makes Fnord feel better, I will admit I am much smarter than he is. :mrgreen:
And there are at least two people who want Fnord to remain who he is,
Since he is no threat to my superiority. 8) :mrgreen:



cubedemon6073
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25 Oct 2019, 3:42 am

What Fnord never ever tells anyone is that certain conditions existed that allowed him to go down his path. This is what him and others with his mentality and attitude will never tell you. Certain things played out a certain way just like certain things played out a certain way for me. Yes, both him and I made decisions and yes it is our decisions that can influence how things are played out but decisions aren't the only factor.

For every Fnord autistic who was able to not only survive the workplace but succeed and rise to management how many ended up being like me on SSDI and Jonathan Mitchell on Autism Gadfly. We both busted our asses. If one looks at the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the ratio disabled of those who are employed vs those who are not there are more who are not then are. And, there are more not in the labor force then unemployed.

This man makes it seem like his right choices are the ones that led to his success when the right choices are only a part of the story.

If I joined the military at the age he joined how would I have done and how would most do if we joined it? Would I have been allowed to join it at his age? Would the rules of enlistment have worked in my favor just like it worked in Fnord's favor? Would I and other autistics or a good chunk of them been able to do the drills and understand the drill sergeants when they were yelling at them? What percentage of us would have been able to pass basic?

He had to do certain things to survive while homeless? What if the outcomes of those things went differently then they did?

Am I envious of this man's success? No, I am not. I'm happy he did.

But, this man like a lot of conservative personal responsibility types is painting a picture of life that is skewed and overly- simiplistic.

Truth is, life is complex and meanders. This man could've been on SSDI just like me no matter what decisions he made. Sometimes life involves things that are simply out of your control that influence what your circumstances will be.



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25 Oct 2019, 3:50 am

Fnord wrote:
[color=black]I'm Tired

I'm tired of people putting me down for being truthful and factual, as if doing so is somehow an insult to those whose ideas of "truth" and "fact" have nothing to do with reality, or those to whom the statement "If you can measure it, it's real" seems as meaningless to them as "If you can imagine it, it's real" does to me. What is so troubling about reality that they seek to deny its inflexibility at every opportunity? There is but one reality, which is unchangeable no matter what your personal condition (i.e., age, ancestry, culture, gender expression, political affiliation, religion, sex, et cetera) may be.

I am tired of people trying to prove to me that only their opinions matter, especially when those opinions are based on their subjective feelings and emotions, rather than objective reality and facts. Even at my age, my own opinions have changed when new facts have been presented. Yet, when I present factual evidence that disproves someone else's opinions, they will (more often than not) hold on to their opinions and even accuse me of falsifying data or making up my own facts. Why can't they see that adhering to their opinions proves nothing other than their ignorance and stubbornness?


Many people are emotionalists.
Some people are incapable of rational thought.
"You can take a wombat to reason/logic but you can't make it think."
Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One, but the lightbulb has got to want to change.
And some have an anemic moral compass, hence the need for a healthy dose of cynicism.
Bottom line: Don't waste your time trying to reason with people unless invited.

Evolution has done a monstrous job in creating humanity.
The harsh fight for resources/survival has turned connivery and cruelty virtuous in humanity's development.
Is it any wonder we have the nonsense we have even today?

Also, consider:
Those who produce more children tend to have lesser Intellectual Quotient.
And studies suggest that collectively, humanity's IQ is going backwards.
The struggle for integrity seems to also be going backward when so many have to ask: "What is Integrity?"

If you are feeling disgusted by the lack of reason/rationality in the world,
Join the club.
If you wish, I could talk to the Vulcan High Council and ask if I could sponsor you, for the purpose of joining the Vulcan Confederacy. :wink:

No need to decide right now.
Take your time.
PM me.
It is a life-changing decision after all. 8)

BTW,
I've been retired since I turned 50.
Is Don,
Is good. :mrgreen:



magz
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25 Oct 2019, 5:32 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
What Fnord never ever tells anyone is that certain conditions existed that allowed him to go down his path. This is what him and others with his mentality and attitude will never tell you. Certain things played out a certain way just like certain things played out a certain way for me. Yes, both him and I made decisions and yes it is our decisions that can influence how things are played out but decisions aren't the only factor.

For every Fnord autistic who was able to not only survive the workplace but succeed and rise to management how many ended up being like me on SSDI and Jonathan Mitchell on Autism Gadfly. We both busted our asses. If one looks at the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the ratio disabled of those who are employed vs those who are not there are more who are not then are. And, there are more not in the labor force then unemployed.

This man makes it seem like his right choices are the ones that led to his success when the right choices are only a part of the story.

If I joined the military at the age he joined how would I have done and how would most do if we joined it? Would I have been allowed to join it at his age? Would the rules of enlistment have worked in my favor just like it worked in Fnord's favor? Would I and other autistics or a good chunk of them been able to do the drills and understand the drill sergeants when they were yelling at them? What percentage of us would have been able to pass basic?

He had to do certain things to survive while homeless? What if the outcomes of those things went differently then they did?

Am I envious of this man's success? No, I am not. I'm happy he did.

But, this man like a lot of conservative personal responsibility types is painting a picture of life that is skewed and overly- simiplistic.

Truth is, life is complex and meanders. This man could've been on SSDI just like me no matter what decisions he made. Sometimes life involves things that are simply out of your control that influence what your circumstances will be.

Cheers! :drunken:
viewtopic.php?t=381627


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25 Oct 2019, 6:04 am

magz wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
What Fnord never ever tells anyone is that certain conditions existed that allowed him to go down his path. This is what him and others with his mentality and attitude will never tell you. Certain things played out a certain way just like certain things played out a certain way for me. Yes, both him and I made decisions and yes it is our decisions that can influence how things are played out but decisions aren't the only factor.

For every Fnord autistic who was able to not only survive the workplace but succeed and rise to management how many ended up being like me on SSDI and Jonathan Mitchell on Autism Gadfly. We both busted our asses. If one looks at the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the ratio disabled of those who are employed vs those who are not there are more who are not then are. And, there are more not in the labor force then unemployed.

This man makes it seem like his right choices are the ones that led to his success when the right choices are only a part of the story.

If I joined the military at the age he joined how would I have done and how would most do if we joined it? Would I have been allowed to join it at his age? Would the rules of enlistment have worked in my favor just like it worked in Fnord's favor? Would I and other autistics or a good chunk of them been able to do the drills and understand the drill sergeants when they were yelling at them? What percentage of us would have been able to pass basic?

He had to do certain things to survive while homeless? What if the outcomes of those things went differently then they did?

Am I envious of this man's success? No, I am not. I'm happy he did.

But, this man like a lot of conservative personal responsibility types is painting a picture of life that is skewed and overly- simiplistic.

Truth is, life is complex and meanders. This man could've been on SSDI just like me no matter what decisions he made. Sometimes life involves things that are simply out of your control that influence what your circumstances will be.

Cheers! :drunken:
viewtopic.php?t=381627


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.