J.K. Rowling is a disgusting TERF

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It’s like saying that being gay is a “choice” or a “wish” instead of a real aspect of who a person is.

It’d be belittling to those individuals’ experience.

@ VegetableMan

You also kind of separated trans women out from women in general, which is kind of considered transphobic. You kind of asked to think of the women who feel uncomfortable, not really seeing that your comment ignores that the alternative is women feeling uncomfortable, and arguably to a greater amount. So your sentence implies that trans women are not women.

I know you are using the words different to I am, you are referring to sex, as you think that is the important distinction. It can perhaps have some importance in sports, where sex can influence the body for athleticism, and it has been acknowledged to be a very complex topic by those in the trans community. Those who acknowledge that the sports is broken up in the first place to have even playing fields of sex, are not saying that someone identifies as the other gender and now gets to be in their sports.

As it stands, a lot of trans people take something called HRT, Hormone Replacement Therapy, and does quite a bit to change the body. You can run a quick google search of some before and afters of HRT. I saw some videos somewhere that I think mentioned that some sports allow a trans person to compete after they have done approximately a year of taking HRT, supposedly this levels the playing field. But the specifics of that is being handled by biology scientists who are following that sort of thing more directly, it is out the purview for most of us to make some judgement, and very complex.

In regards to other spaces, I think that this discussion requires some testimony from trans people that want to use the spaces that do not align with their birth sex, especially those with gender dysphoria. Because there really seems to be no way people like you are going to believe their situation through these second or third hand stories. They are not just dressing up and presenting as their gender because they want some special privilege, or that they like feminine or masculine things. They seriously feel (know) in their mind, with their brain, that they are the gender they identify as, and their body does not reflect that. It is as true to them as it is to you, but this has come in spite of their sex.

The idea of saying that it is just some choice is a mockery to what a lot of them have to deal with. Like they really chose to be ostracised by a great deal of those in society, to be made fun of, harassed, at risk of violence, and in general make their lives harder. Some people believe that trans people are doing it out of some weird fetish thing, which is silly that trans people go though all of that to get themselves off. Contrapoints has a pretty good video titled Autogynephilia on this subject.

Biological sex (in the context of my post I'll refer to it as "sex") is becoming disassociated with or no longer tied to gender. To each their own in that regard as far as I'm concerned.

However, in my opinion it would be wrong as a society to depart from reality and even punish those who assert such things.

Example:

Biological males don't have uteri nor do they have ovaries; they can't produce ova. Biological females don't have prostate glands nor do they have testicles; they can't produce sperm. Those are facts. That's reality.

There was something in the news recently about a biological male to female trans person who wanted a doctor to perform a Pap smear to which the doctor refused? This would be similar to a biological female to male trans person asking for a prostate exam. Those cases would not be rooted in reality.

To force a doctor and society at large to pretend that a biological female had a prostate gland and perform a prostate exam when no prostate exists, or worse craft some sort of legal punishment for opposing such things on the basis of reality would be wrong in my opinion.

[
In regards to other spaces, I think that this discussion requires some testimony from trans people that want to use the spaces that do not align with their birth sex, especially those with gender dysphoria. Because there really seems to be no way people like you are going to believe their situation through these second or third hand stories. They are not just dressing up and presenting as their gender because they want some special privilege, or that they like feminine or masculine things. They seriously feel (know) in their mind, with their brain, that they are the gender they identify as, and their body does not reflect that. It is as true to them as it is to you, but this has come in spite of their sex.

The idea of saying that it is just some choice is a mockery to what a lot of them have to deal with. Like they really chose to be ostracised by a great deal of those in society, to be made fun of, harassed, at risk of violence, and in general make their lives harder. Some people believe that trans people are doing it out of some weird fetish thing, which is silly that trans people go though all of that to get themselves off. Contrapoints has a pretty good video titled Autogynephilia on this subject.[/quote]

And yet, even knowing the above, I still think there needs to be open debate.

The reason Maya Forstater spoke up was because of proposals to make it easier for trans people to formally change their documented gender.
Personally, I hope they do make it easier. Why must trans people wait years and jump through hoops for their gender identity to be recognised?

But it does potentially open doors to people who have not completed transition, or who are still uncertain about their gender, or maybe pretending to be trans (for whatever reason), or even are truly mentally ill, to gain documents of gender change. Even accepting that the vast majority of transwomen pose no threat, the potential danger in allowing all these people into spaces for the opposite biological sex needs to be recognised and considered.

The issue is that any debate on this is stifled by accusations of bigotry and transphobia. Maybe there is an element of transphobia there, maybe not. If we're open to discussion, maybe we'll find out.

In July, a clinician in the UK resigned over view that debate was being silenced. This is someone who has been working in a gender identity clinic, not someone trans-phobic or trans exclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... transition

'Evans said that since his resignation he had become concerned that the debate around transitioning had been shut down by a vocal minority. “The mind that is free to think or ask difficult questions is treated as a real threat; TV producers and journalists continually report that while people are willing to speak in confidence to them about their reservations about treatment in these areas, they shy away from being named, for fear of being accused of being bigoted and transphobic and sometimes either disciplined or even sacked for speaking their mind.”'

Watched a couple videos that are very fair to J.K. Rowling, while explaining why she is being labelled as transphobic.





I think they both keep anything that could be name calling out of the explanations, and can explain quite plainly what has come out is seen as troubling by people in the trans community.

Just because someone declares an identity that does not match the physical evidence does not mean that anyone else has to accept their declaration or even acknowledge it.

Of course, it also doesn't mean that anyone should be abusive about it, either ... on either side.