I have Aspergers!! !! My parents have Aspergers!! ! Gluten

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monty
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06 Sep 2007, 4:06 pm

Why not post the original? No problem - it still contradicts what you said. I said that there were significant reservations about the quality of the studies. You said that it was officially a placebo. I think my interpretation is more accurate.

To actually prove something is no better than placebo is very different from having six studies that found a treatment effect, and then saying that the research could have been designed better.

The section you highlighted "... owing to significant methodological flaws, the currently available data are inadequate to guide treatment recommendations" means that members of the conservative medical profession should not tell their patients to try a gluten/casein free diet, because it is not a treatment that is absolutely proven.

It does not mean that such a diet might not help a person with ASD - we don't know. It does not mean that such a diet is not safe, or that patients should be discouraged from trying it if they are interested. It has been proven to help 100% of patients with celiac disease, 30-40% of patients with Hashimoto's thyroid disease, maybe it helps with ASD, maybe not. But to discourage people from trying it? I don't see the value in that.

"We don't know" is different from "that can't help you."



TheMachine1
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06 Sep 2007, 4:20 pm

monty wrote:
But to discourage people from trying it? I don't see the value in that.


Not discouraging people. I'm giving a realistic assessment. A small percent of people who try the diet will benefit. The placebo controlled study I read about said it was no better than placebo but that some people in the study had good results.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/562059

Quote:
Fad Treatments Without Clinical Evidence of Autism Benefits Are Proliferating

Marlene Busko

August 27, 2007 — More children are being diagnosed with autism, and more are receiving "fad" treatments, or treatments that are being marketed and rapidly adopted without scientific evidence to support their use, researchers said in a symposium entitled "Outrageous Developmental Disabilities Treatments," at the 115th Annual Convention of the American Psychological Association, in San Francisco.

Developmental disabilities like autism, for which there is no cure, are "a magnet for all kinds of unsupported or disproved therapies, and it has gotten worse as more children have been diagnosed with autism," symposium chair James Mulick, MD, from Ohio State University, in Columbus, said in a press release issued by the university.

Symposium presenter Tracy Kettering, from Ohio State University, told Medscape: "We aren't saying that none of these treatments work or that all of them are harmful, but a review of the literature suggests that there is currently not enough available research to suggest that many of these treatments work."

She said that studies suggest that the prevalence of autism has increased by over 200% from 1987 to 1998, and meanwhile the number of treatments for autism has increased dramatically. A Google search of the term "autism treatments" yields hundreds of different types of therapies, many with associated claims from parents that a particular therapy "cured" their child, Ms. Kettering said. "It's no wonder that parents want to believe," she added, noting that very few of these treatments have any evidence to support them.

Families try multiple treatments, she reported. A survey of 552 members of the Autism Society of America found that, on average, families tried 7 autism treatments for their autistic children.

Dr. Mulick explained that the number of cases of autism has mushroomed because of better diagnoses and a changing definition of autism that includes a broader spectrum of disorders.

He added that research evidence shows that early intensive behavior intervention treatments have a positive long-term effect on autism. This highly structured approach to learning involves one-on-one behavioral treatment with a child for up to 40 hours a week for several years. Since this is expensive and difficult for many parents, this might be a reason why families are searching for other treatments, he speculates.

In her presentation, Ms Kettering discussed some of the more popular fad treatments. She noted that 3 small, well-designed studies of combined vitamin B6 and magnesium found this treatment was ineffective but might warrant further study, and 2 studies of a gluten-free/casein-free diet did not find improvement of autism with this diet. She reported that, in addition, several large, well-designed studies of secretin in autism spectrum disorders have shown that it is ineffective; flawed analyses of auditory integration therapy reported mixed results; and no scientific studies have been done to evaluate holding therapy, animal therapy, or hyperbaric oxygen therapy for autistic children.

Some fads can be dangerous, Dr. Mulick cautioned. Chelation therapy, which involves taking medicine to remove the level of mercury in the body, was reported to lead to the death of 1 autistic boy, he noted.

He added that fad treatments might be popular because parents tend to search for treatments when their child's symptoms get worse, and when the child gets better, which happens in the normal course of the disease, parents credit the new therapy. "It's natural that parents have this bias," he said. "They want to believe.

"Autism studies are a long, time-consuming, and expensive process, and some of the fad treatments being used today would never be approved for testing, as they are just too dangerous," he observed.

American Psychological Association 115th Annual Convention. August 17-20, 2007.



mrsry
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06 Sep 2007, 6:07 pm

I am gluten intolerant, and removing gluten from my diet has made me feel so much better. I couldn't make any claims related to AS, but I am finally not getting sick from my food all the time. It has also helped tremendously with my migraines, whereas all the medications I've tried haven't. I can always tell when I've eaten something that's touched another product containing wheat, because the sickness and migraines will come back.

Whole Foods is a great place to find GF products. Their store brand GF cookies are especially good, and Tinkyada rice pasta is very good. Their website has a list of GF products that each location carries, although I don't think it is comprehensive. You'd definitely find more than what's on the list if you read labels closely.



monty
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06 Sep 2007, 9:17 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:

Not discouraging people. I'm giving a realistic assessment. A small percent of people who try the diet will benefit. The placebo controlled study I read about said it was no better than placebo but that some people in the study had good results.



So riddle me this, Machine-one:

How can a study conclude that something is no better than a placebo, and yet that some people benefited from it? If it truly were no better than a placebo, there would be no reason to assert a benefit. Were they criticizing the design of the study, the size of the group studied, patient heterogeneity, or their own conclusion?

While gluten and casein are two common substances that can trigger immune responses that could lead to the wiring misfiring, they aren't the only two. If there are multiple sensitivities and only two antigens are eliminated, then the benefits would be limited.



TheMachine1
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06 Sep 2007, 9:40 pm

monty wrote:
So riddle me this, Machine-one:

How can a study conclude that something is no better than a placebo, and yet that some people benefited from it?



Because they based there conclusion on things they measured before and after the test. But in the discussion they mention a few people said they had positive results. Thats usually means another study to try to quantify that is in order.



arem
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06 Sep 2007, 11:11 pm

monty wrote:
How can a study conclude that something is no better than a placebo, and yet that some people benefited from it? If it truly were no better than a placebo, there would be no reason to assert a benefit. Were they criticizing the design of the study, the size of the group studied, patient heterogeneity, or their own conclusion?


Placebos can have positive effects; it's why they're used in the control group.


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monty
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07 Sep 2007, 10:03 am

Sure, placebos can sometimes have positive effects. But if something is no better than placebo, it means not rejecting the null hypothesis. It means that the treatment being tested is not itself considered effective.

There are actually two kinds of placebo. One is based on the expectation effect - where a person might produce less adrenaline or cortisol because the idea that they took something relaxes them, or they become confident and overcome mental barriers and improve their social interaction. The second type is due to the sampling effect - the 'placebo' group acts as a control for the statistical noise that is inherent in scientific studies. That's all well and good.


But what about the issues of diet and neural functioning?? There are more than a few studies that show that some ASD patients are hypersensitive to common food allergens and have various problems in the gut. This obviously affects their immune system, leading to an increase in immune hormones like TNF, interferons, and various interluekins. These molecules can disturb the nervous system - a common side effect of interferon therapy is a marked increase in anxiety or panic. Serotonin chemistry is not isolated - it is linked to other neurotransmitters, to the immune hormones and ion balance and the flow of serotonin precursors that come in via the diet.

I'm not suggesting that diet is The Cause of any ASD. But an impaired digestive system and exaggerated immune response to diet have been clearly implicated as important factors. Factors that an individual can experiment with and possibly improve their life.


Innate immunity associated with inflammatory responses and cytokine production against common dietary proteins in patients with autism spectrum disorder.

Evaluation of an association between gastrointestinal symptoms and cytokine production against common dietary proteins in children with autism spectrum disorders.

Spontaneous mucosal lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and gastrointestinal symptoms: mucosal immune activation and reduced counter regulatory interleukin-10.

Intestinal lymphocyte populations in children with regressive autism: evidence for extensive mucosal immunopathology.

Colonic CD8 and gamma delta T-cell infiltration with epithelial damage in children with autism.



ouinon
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21 Oct 2007, 2:04 pm

CentralFLM wrote:
.... when I eat gluten I get a high that is unbelievable. Literally I'll yelp with glee. It is a drug for me.


:) I get that . It's amazing. I watched "Batman Returns" after eating wheat( in carrot cake), followed by icecream in a wheat cone , for the first time in 3 weeks ( the very first time I went on an exclusion diet) , and I was literally tripping. I sobbed my heart out when Catwoman shreds her fluffy toys etc; was totally spaced!!
Everything was so intense and intense and intense. It was wonderful.
Next day I was in a black hole of depression , and clumsy with it. Basically like having a strange sort of hangover!!

8O :? 8)