Adults overwhelmed by him

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Searching for clues to a probable diagnosis of my 5yr old son before taking him in for formal assessment.

There is one probable case of ADHD among my relatives (lost from psychologist follow-up) and one of probable autism.

Long story short, this is my kid (all behaviors or characteristics have been present for at least 6 months and many for 3 years or more):

very active, never still, pretty agile, risk-taking behaviour (jumping from chair to chair, balancing on bed rail, sitting on edge of furniture, balancing/walking on narrow structures)

extremely talkative (never stops), incessant questioning (each answer just leads to another question), unusual questioning (e.g. Q: Are people born with clothes? A: No. Q: Then who took care of you [adults] and dressed you when you were babies? A:We weren't all born at the same time, so my mom took care of me and grandma took care of her etc... Q: Then [roundabout question best summarized as: who took care of and dressed the first people] did God make them with clothes?

adults in close contact (extended family, guests) tend to avoid being with him, probably because interaction is so exhausting (especially with regard to excessive speech and refusal to conform)

adults outside tend to find him bright and charming

extreme resistance to sleep even when obviously sleepy; will get involved in physical activity (usually mischief) if he feels sleep coming on, at those times he often seems "motor driven"; may sleep late or be difficult to wake

close attachment to mother sometimes manifested as clinging (sitting on or very close to, following very closely, very resistant to sleeping alone, sleeps with at least one body part in contact with companion); never exhibited separation anxiety per se (no crying when parents leave)

very descriptive of his emotions (e.g "I'm crying without tears or I'm crying in my mind")

great sense of humor

loves pretend play (acts out favorite stories and movies)

very upset by changes in routine or environment

explosive anger (often triggered by unexpected/unpleasant surprises), temper tantrums if not "eased into" or prepared for changes/disappointments

often impulsive; the difficulty in predicting what he might do next sometimes leads to parents and caregivers avoiding social situations where impulsivity can cause embarrassmnet

very resistant to doing what he is told; has to be given a reason for every instruction; questions authority (will point out any inconsistencies in discipline policy or instructions e.g. "last time [read 6 months ago] you said I could..." or "yesterday, [read last month] teacher said it was okay"

very strong-willed; will persist in a behavior even after punishment (immediately after or despite punishment) if he feels strongly enough about what he is doing or wants to

sometimes seems to lack remorse for wrongdoing, but will readily apologize so that the offended person will speak to him again (doesn't seem to be really sorry, but wants to mend fences)

sometimes seems truly overcome with sorrow over his "bad" behavior, but unsure how to change it

superb memory (more for events than for the 3 R's)

enjoys company of others, especially his peers (seeks them out); often ignores social cues and sometimes seems to enjoy flying in the face of what is socially accepted (somewhat of a paradox here: wants to be with people, but does not necessarily want to act in a way that is seen as acceptable)


Sometimes I think all of the above is just normal kid behavior, sometimes I think there must be something ususual there. The main reason I'm seeking some answers is the "avoidance" behavior of some adults and even some children, which I think in the long run will be damaging to his self esteem.

Well, ADHD and Autism is often comorbid so it might be both!

I don't have any suggestions, there are just to many things it *might* be. If I may ask though, what process do you plan to follow to get the formal assessment?

BeeBee

I don't have any advice for you, but I do want to say that I think it is great to see a parent who knows their child so well and cares very much for them.

Thumbs up to you and all the best with things. I think trust your heart on this one.

Sounds like a young Jim Morrison.
I am only partially joking.

It really is great that you know your child so well. I think the best thing for him would be to help him explore his personal strengths, rather than trying to get him to conform as most parents would do, and as society will inevitably do. A diagnosis doesn't really sound necessary.
Learning to master a skill might be very helpful, if he can find something that grabs his attention.


I had to laugh about the clothing questions. This sounds exactly like me when I was a kid. I used to go around asking everyone
"who made God?"

Who were these family members and what was the outcom
of their diagnoses results?



Hmmmmm?



to start with, I am Ghosthunter, I am HFA.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but perhaps
offer some insite!

1)...Very active! Where lies this creativity root?
Art?
Music?
or other forms of active expressionism!

2)...Risk taking behaviour!

Hmmmmm? I am like that. I balance on ledges
and do stuff like that as a adult and teen.
I will ask a few particular questions.

a)...does he have any special delays in development?
hmmmm? speech
hmmmm? eye contact
hmmmm? memory
hmmmm? spatial topics(like maps for me, as well as
gettng lost,..... as a example?)

b)...If not, AS, in my readings tend to be introverted.
I don't think??? this applies to him. HFA is extroverted
and tendencies to ask things(i), push envelopes(ii),
and as I should know, bother adults with strange energy
and presence.



This sounds like HFA. If you notice how I question. In my
opinion, HFA'rs will pick at things, not give vague and
indirect interest to topics.

Example:
Hi, I am new here!

person A= "welcome to wrong planet"
Person B= "welcom to wrongplanet and enjoy your stay"
Person C= "Hi!, how are you?"
Ghosthunter(HFA) = Hmmmm?
what are you hobbies and interests?
are you as? Pdd-nos? HFA? and what do you exhibit
when these characteristics happen?

This is in my opinion a HFA'r like myself!



I was and am the same way. My relatives found me
hyper as a kid and teen. This is probly because,
like myself(HFA) and perhaps him(HFA it seems!)
when I am comfortable around someone, I express
more, and here is a clue!(I express, write and
communicate how I think!). Around strangers
this is also obvious! It is a form of reaching out!

PDD-Nos? maybe
AS? no!
HFA! most likely so far for him(he seems to want
to volunteer info, not be asked for info)



This is because some people like this expression
of a autisic kind. Hmmmmm? Who find this
energy and expressionism interesting and
are drawn to it? Here is some of your clues!

Adults, Teens are attracted to those who are
like them and can spot this energy!



I think, in my opinion, that this is autistic spectrum
trait overall!



Sound like autism in general. This is a autism quality,
and even I exhibit as well as other posters on this board.



Hmmmmm?
My grandmother said at five-six years old(due to temporary
deafness and speech delays) I played by myself. I wasn't
responsive in normal situations. Though the hearing part
was fixed, I am still in this isolative, but need people around
me mode. It is not conversation, their energies I need
to inspire me. This is my example of a HFA characteristic
that most on this board don't exhibit.

The other parts of you statements in this quote bracket
need further clarification!



Very HFA!! !! !! !! ! AS tendancies don't do this, be it posted on
this board, or ones I met!



Good! This is autism specturmed depending on the
type of humor. What is this humor like?

sadistic-funny?
general-funny?
creative and comparison based funny?




autistic trait in general!



Autism trait!



Autism trait!



Autism trait! tough call on this target area possiblities!



Hmmmm? Not sure!



Hmmmmm? I would say AS quality!

bottomline addresses:



What's more damaging is losing identity for others. Others will
come and go, but you are still stuck with yourself!





WRITING IN PROGRESS!

Last edited by Ghosthunter on 25 Jul 2005, 11:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

Double Post!

I have three boys ( ages 10, 8, 6 )the oldest has asperger and is very high functioning, The other two do not have asperger. As I read your list some of the things such as extreme talk and incessant questioning at one time or another all three have done. As to very active agile risk taking the only one of my boys is the youngest. As to loves to pretend that is my middle boy. Over all I would guess that it is asperger and he is very high functioning, but take this for what it is worth I am not a doctor

I just spent the last four days with a 5 year old boy, and he exhibited all of those traits. He does not have ADD, ADHD, nor does he have autism. He is exhausting. My cousin has identical twin boys and they act the same way, they do not have autism.

My brother behaved the same way at 5 years old (I was 20 years old at the time) and he does not have autism.

It sounds like you have a typical, bright, 5 year old. Look into getting healthier and increasing your energy to keep up. I think you're fishing for a label that doesn't need to be made.

Asperger's is starting to become trendy and it is a shame.

Tallgirl.

The cool thing about your statement is there is no
absolute, but simple
formulas for calculating the characteristics. I am
glad you are using free-thought interpretation! I am not
perfect, nor is anyone else, but altimately our subconscious
hunches and physical observations can be
a better guage tool than all the professionals in the world!

Keep using instince and observation!! god-bless!
Ghosthunter

That's pretty much how I used to be as a kid, give or take a few things.
I'd say it's Asperger Syndrome, and not ADHD.

On a further note, I took a lot of heat from my parents for these personality traits. Back in the 80's and 90's, Asperger's had different names: laziness, disobedience, and immaturity, to name a few.

This boy could be Asperger's/HFA and very active too. I had some of the same traits as a child eg. the endless questions including questioning authority (It wasn't any good to tell me to do something "because I told you so" - I needed to know why I should do the particular thing). Ditto for if I were told not to do something.

Sometimes, I must have talked too much as I can remember mum yelling at me to "shut up" a few times. I wasn't all that energetic though, but liked climbing trees and rocks. I used to get very upset at sudden changes in routine and still do.

I implore you, if you already spank your child, do not increase the severity or methods of spanking! It is not uncommon for AS kids to be resistant to physical punishment. I, myself never learned from it. To me, it just meant that my parents wanted to hurt me, which wreaked havoc on me emotionally. However, if the punishment fit the crime, I learned by it.

I fear that many parents end up abusing their AS children under the guise of punishment, or just because they are angry or frustrated.

I completely agree. Throughout my childhood, I viewed punishment as a way for my parents to get even with me for not doing what they tell me to do.

Over-strict parents - especially in a large family of 7 children - can cause considerable damage in the infliction of capricious punishment without rhyme or reason; especially when different children are treated differently.

It is probably a very stressful situation for parents raising that many (or even any) children.



It so often is just lashing out. In the 1970's behavioural problems were either engaged with through psychodynamic principles (often with an unjustifiable burden of guilt for the parents), or else attributed to personal character defects on the part of the child.