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marshall
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09 Oct 2007, 2:39 pm

richardbenson wrote:
marshall wrote:
However it's also annoying when people say stuff that's obviously BS
exactly. i mean im nieve but not gullible. also i dont see the big deal about asking someone to prove anything they say, listen if you get on the internet and say that youve been struck by lighting twice or one of your uncles was on one of the planes that went down on 9/11 you better show some kind of proof. i can get online and say all kinds of lies, i usually try to provide proof with almost anything i say as i look at it as a courtasy. i had $10,000 and i posted a picture of a bank slip saying so, i just didn get online saying guess what guys, i have $10,000.


Yea. Being struck by lightning twice in one life seems very unlikely unless one regularly hangs out on top of a mountain or tower during thunderstorms. There are documented cases though.

What I don't get is why Ticker tells us all these things when she would probably deny that she wants us to feel sorry for her. I can't stand people who wear their ailments as a badge of honor and simultaneously use them to put other people down. Seems like manipulative behavior to me.



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09 Oct 2007, 3:06 pm

mechanima wrote:
Patronising social attitudes reinforce that when we should be encouraging parents to raise their children to expand their horizons and be as independent as possoble, not conditioning them to become co-dependent extensions of their own sense of self.


Our of curiosity (and it simply is curiosity; I dislike arguments - and this goes back awhile, to the beginning of this thread, not necessarily this post), why are you so opposed to parents going to psychological and/or psychiatric consultations with their children?

My mother (who is NT) was with me when I had my first psychologist visit, although she did leave the offices for a time so I could talk to her by myself. She (my mother) is supposed to go back to talk to the psychologist at some point by herself for family history or some such thing; it was requested that way, and I don't have a problem with it. Most of the time, I go by myself, but there are times when it's requested that she come as well, and so she does. The appointments are not for AS either; there's a variety of things.

My father (who is so obviously AS), on the other hand, never comes; in fact, he knows nothing of it (my parents are married, by the way, so they live together (and I with them; I'm only 16, which I suppose plays a part in it); it's not a matter of being unable to reach him or anything like that). It's one of several things he doesn't know about, actually, but that's something else; I'm not allowed to tell him, because he'll try to stop them (and he will).

Personally, I was very thankful to my mother for coming with me (although I did not agree with everything she said); I don't really think I could have gone to the first one by myself. Even with her there, I wanted to run; besides that, she has information that I do not, about things that could pertain to it, things like my childhood (I remember very little of it). She also has family information that could be helpful, I guess.

Of course, I understand that not all parents are so understanding, and many may be more hindering than helpful; in those cases, I can see why people balk against bringing a parent. And I can understand why some would not like to have their parents coming to every session, especially if they sat in on each (although I'm sure some may not mind, and that is their prerogative). But I don't think it's always a bad thing, especially in the beginning, if only for background information (and providing that the parent is truly meaning to be helpful, of course).


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unnamed
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09 Oct 2007, 3:21 pm

marshall wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
marshall wrote:
However it's also annoying when people say stuff that's obviously BS
exactly. i mean im nieve but not gullible. also i dont see the big deal about asking someone to prove anything they say, listen if you get on the internet and say that youve been struck by lighting twice or one of your uncles was on one of the planes that went down on 9/11 you better show some kind of proof. i can get online and say all kinds of lies, i usually try to provide proof with almost anything i say as i look at it as a courtasy. i had $10,000 and i posted a picture of a bank slip saying so, i just didn get online saying guess what guys, i have $10,000.


Yea. Being struck by lightning twice in one life seems very unlikely unless one regularly hangs out on top of a mountain or tower during thunderstorms. There are documented cases though.

What I don't get is why Ticker tells us all these things when she would probably deny that she wants us to feel sorry for her. I can't stand people who wear their ailments as a badge of honor and simultaneously use them to put other people down. Seems like manipulative behavior to me.

I worked with many manipulative people in the 20 years I spent working in an office environment. To be honest, I envied people like that. They seemed to feel they were always right, they knew what was best for everyone, and they loved to put people down in myriad subtle ways. Then when someone finally confronted them, it quickly became "poor me, this or that happened to me, I have such a horrible life." So...whatever.



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09 Oct 2007, 3:30 pm

RainSong wrote:
mechanima wrote:
Patronising social attitudes reinforce that when we should be encouraging parents to raise their children to expand their horizons and be as independent as possoble, not conditioning them to become co-dependent extensions of their own sense of self.


Our of curiosity (and it simply is curiosity; I dislike arguments - and this goes back awhile, to the beginning of this thread, not necessarily this post), why are you so opposed to parents going to psychological and/or psychiatric consultations with their children?

My mother (who is NT) was with me when I had my first psychologist visit, although she did leave the offices for a time so I could talk to her by myself. She (my mother) is supposed to go back to talk to the psychologist at some point by herself for family history or some such thing; it was requested that way, and I don't have a problem with it. Most of the time, I go by myself, but there are times when it's requested that she come as well, and so she does. The appointments are not for AS either; there's a variety of things.

My father (who is so obviously AS), on the other hand, never comes; in fact, he knows nothing of it (my parents are married, by the way, so they live together (and I with them; I'm only 16, which I suppose plays a part in it); it's not a matter of being unable to reach him or anything like that). It's one of several things he doesn't know about, actually, but that's something else; I'm not allowed to tell him, because he'll try to stop them (and he will).

Personally, I was very thankful to my mother for coming with me (although I did not agree with everything she said); I don't really think I could have gone to the first one by myself. Even with her there, I wanted to run; besides that, she has information that I do not, about things that could pertain to it, things like my childhood (I remember very little of it). She also has family information that could be helpful, I guess.

Of course, I understand that not all parents are so understanding, and many may be more hindering than helpful; in those cases, I can see why people balk against bringing a parent. And I can understand why some would not like to have their parents coming to every session, especially if they sat in on each (although I'm sure some may not mind, and that is their prerogative). But I don't think it's always a bad thing, especially in the beginning, if only for background information (and providing that the parent is truly meaning to be helpful, of course).

I was diagnosed as an adult, but my mom (AS) was interviewed about me and my dad and grandmother (NTs) also provided feedback on my childhood behavior. I think parental input is necessary in the diagnostic process, but I don't think parents should accompany their kids to actual counseling sessions unless there's a specific family conflict going on. The goal with counseling is to learn how to accept yourself and how to deal with your AS. I don't think that's always possible when a parent is too involved the whole way through. It's not really so much about being financially dependent on a parent, but about being too emotionally dependent. Just my opinion (as is everything else I post here).



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09 Oct 2007, 3:54 pm

one more thing, likedcalico intensity isnt a support site, wich means any behaviour goes, shurley ive brought that attitude over here and have abused people but i think ive cleaned up my act here ALOT. name calling on intensity was equally distributed between me and you, so stop acting like your just some innocent victim. i also recal on zOMG you threatening me to sick your boyfriend on me if i moved to vancouver washington. should i call the police? i dont think so. it would be silly for me to do so, the point im trying to make is i dont let anything you say hurt me, bug me, or annoy me. maybe you should do the same. i hardly post there anymore due to all the negativity there. so stop your crying and let whatever grudge you have against me on a fourm with no rules for saying your p**** is fake go alright?


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Last edited by richardbenson on 09 Oct 2007, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AnnabelLee
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09 Oct 2007, 4:01 pm

I am a bit confused. So many here are dead against (so it appears) parents aiding their autie/aspie children past childhood. May I ask for concise reasons as to why?

I am 30 years old. I moved out on my own (sort of...I got married) at 18. I have made a complete and total mess of my life since then. I am now divorced, lost custody of my 3 older children (I could not figure out how to handle everything on my own compared to my ex who had a job, a house, etc). I am remarried with 2 young children. My current husband understands asperger's well so is a major source of help. He is putting me through college.

Had my mother not basically pushed me out, I'd have never married my ex. I was living day to day in desperation because of what she did. She has no understanding for my asperger's though she knows all about it.

I do not feel it fair that there seems to be some judgmental attitudes here over people who stay with their parents. Is not autism and asperger's spectrum disorders? Maybe some of the aspies are like some down syndrome patients. They have enough functioning to live on their own with little help. Then others are more severe and need assistance for the rest of their lives.

I wish to God my mother had given me more time and had taught me how to function on my own. I am learning now. I have 2-5 kids here any given day, take kids to games and practices, handle college, handle kids' homework, and on and on and on. I get overwhelmed easily though. Some cannot do it and I respect them and feel for them. Why is it others don't feel the same?


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richardbenson
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09 Oct 2007, 4:08 pm

well in my case, i still live with my mom. my mom doesnt do my laundry, clean my room, or cook my food. our relationship is basically roomates, i pay for half of all the bills and such. if i have to go into town to do something i have to give her gas money. sometimes she makes me do yard work even if i hate doing it. despite what people think theres nothing wrong with living with your parents, the sole reason i do it is because i cant afford to live on my own where i currently reside, so alot of factors play into people still living with there parents, you cant really judge everyone based on how you function or by some dogma you have. everyone should be looked at on a case by case basis


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Zwerfbeertje
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09 Oct 2007, 4:31 pm

mechanima wrote:
I don't want to be unkind, but I agree with Richard, this statement just REEKS of Munchausens to me...


... by Proxy ...??



ev8
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09 Oct 2007, 4:37 pm

By proxy is more like poisoning your child so that you gain sympathy for having a sickly kid. Straight up Munchausen's is more like faking symptoms of an illness you don't have so that you gain sympathy or attention for having a disease.



mechanima
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09 Oct 2007, 4:39 pm

RainSong wrote:

Out of curiosity (and it simply is curiosity; I dislike arguments - and this goes back awhile, to the beginning of this thread, not necessarily this post), why are you so opposed to parents going to psychological and/or psychiatric consultations with their children?


Because it perpetuates an illusion of us as people deserving of less respect, autonomy and privacy than other adults. Which is just cr*p.

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mechanima
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09 Oct 2007, 4:48 pm

Zwerfbeertje wrote:
mechanima wrote:
I don't want to be unkind, but I agree with Richard, this statement just REEKS of Munchausens to me...


... by Proxy ...??


Nah, just plain ould Munchausen's...that Ticker's profile lists her as an "armchair physician" is a bit of a giveaway too.

I took a bit of a check back through her old posts and they are a little heavy with "selections from the medical dictionary".

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09 Oct 2007, 4:59 pm

unnamed wrote:
I worked with many manipulative people in the 20 years I spent working in an office environment. To be honest, I envied people like that. They seemed to feel they were always right, they knew what was best for everyone, and they loved to put people down in myriad subtle ways. Then when someone finally confronted them, it quickly became "poor me, this or that happened to me, I have such a horrible life." So...whatever.


You said it...

Drives me NUTS...

Particularly the ones who do the most appalling things and then turn around and claim that you have done those things to them, and get believed...

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09 Oct 2007, 5:03 pm

AnnabelLee wrote:
I am a bit confused. So many here are dead against (so it appears) parents aiding their autie/aspie children past childhood. May I ask for concise reasons as to why?


In my case I am not against that at all, what I am is horrified by the prevailing attitudes that insist upon educating parents of Aspies to discourage their children from any attempt at independence, autonomy, equality or even adulthood.

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09 Oct 2007, 5:40 pm

Ticker wrote:
In the old days people with Aspergers were expected to work hard and be self supportive like anyone else. Those were the days when people didn't get diagnosed with AS because the diagnosis didn't exist yet. They were just the local mad scientist or eccentric old cat lady. These days kids get an AS diagnosis and they think its their ticket to sitting on their butt playing video games and surfing the net all day as an adult while their parents and society takes care of them.

If you are able to post on WP then you CAN work. The problem is laziness and enabling by parents. I notice especially that single moms seem to like to keep their AS sons dependant so that he will continue to live with her after he graduates high school. So partly it is some parents fault and it is quite sick.

Sure I used to be nervous calling on the phone to make an appointment and nervous at job interviews. But I quit being a weinie and did it anyway. The more I did it, the easier it got.

My diagnosing doctors have said I am highly autistic. Yet even though I did live with my father in my 20's I was working and I did ALL of the cooking, laundry and shopping. I now have multiple illnesses, have TBI but I am living 2000 miles away from family and still dragging myself into work even though I am now considered physically disabled. In fact one of my doctors offered last week to put me on disability, actually tried to insist, but I very blunting told her NO WAY. I would rather die than be dependant on someone else. Look if I can do it, the rest of you can do it.

Quit using autism as your excuse, quit using your enabling parents as an excuse or your immaturity as an excuse. You WILL MATURE as an adult once you get off your lazy butt and pull your own weight in the world. Life experience=Maturity. The older generation of Aspies did it with absolutely no help. You're an adult now-- its your turn!


Wow. What an ass.


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09 Oct 2007, 6:36 pm

Ok, so maybe some use their "problems" as excuses, but many on here that I've paid attention to are actually incapable of working, at least full-time.

From my own experience.. I was not mollycoddled or sheltered any ANY way whatsoever. I was forced to go onto further education despite my social anxiety (known now, wasn't diagnosed at that point), and I still failed miserably. I got a job that was full-time, with ppl I couldn't relate to no matter how much I tried. I worked my arse off, moreso than my NT workmates, yet THEY were the ones kept on after the 6-month contract. The whole experience left me depressed, confused, exhausted and broken. I then got screamed at by my mother to get a new job and "do it right this time", so I signed onto an agency and got a contract in an office. It was a really easy job, but repetitive, and boring, and my ADHD tendencies came out. It made me even more depressed, I couldn't relate yet again to my coworkers, and I was bullied due to my placid and nervous (not to mention odd) nature. I had to quit. I tried, but it just didn't work for me or my mental and physical health. I spent a year with no work, but I decided to go to university, and failed that, too. I was living independently with two other ppl, and started getting abused by one of them, again due to my oddness. I couldn't handle the uni thing (independent study and I don't mix), and so I got even more depressed, to the point of wanting to die. I got into more debt than I should've done, due to the fear of phones and contacting ppl.

At the moment, I am working part-time as a barmaid and living with my partner. It used to be near enough to full time, but it caused me many meltdowns and I have to be asked to come in and help out if needed AT LEAST two hours before, so I can psyche myself up for it. So I'm working, but it drains me, and I can't do full-time due to EXPERIENCE of full-time jobs if I want to keep healthy.

So, Ticker, sometimes you CAN'T just "get over it". I tried. I still have to depend on my partner to ring ppl up for me. I still have to depend on ppl to help me with shopping. I still have to depend on benifits to help my monthly income. I apologise if my need for sanity annoys you.


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