besides doing crunches/situps and jogging

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When you bulk, you make sure you increase in calories to rapidly gain muscle mass. This is at least the norwegian definition. After you've bulked you use aerobic cardio sessions to lose the fat you gained during the bulk, while at the same time trying to keep the amount of muscle you've gained.



That's some of my points.



Nobody said you'd keep your muscle mass if you didn't do strength workouts.



Much of the weightloss from dianabol usage is loss of water. Joe Lewis doesn't for example deny Bruce Lee's steroid usage, but he claims that it's none of his business.

It's even found evidence that Bruce Lee had a prescription on steroids from his doctor. Some bodybuilders has gotten away with this to.



Bodybuilders don't train for endurance or condition, but for volume. The training used for bodybuilding and strongman is almost identical, thus giving bodybuilders amazing explosive strength, but not much endurance. A lot of powerlifters (eg. Svend Karlsen) are former bodybuilders and vice verca.

A lot of bodybuilders are however capable of running very fast for their size. Some (eg. Ronnie Coleman) are also quite acrobatic.



It's often a question of symmetry and aesthetics. That's how Frank Zane defeated Arnold Schwarzenegger. Frank Zane wasn't even fat off-season because his ectomorphical body gave him a perfect metabolism.

This is pure rubbish. Strongmen need endurance so how can their training be the same as a bodybuilder????? IT'S NOT THE SAME! How many BB's you see training with stones, sand bags, tractor tyres and other odd objects? Most BB's training is done in the gym. BB's are known for not being explosive because of their training! How much ballistic and plyometric training does the average BB do? NONE. You're just making this stuff up as you go along

Nope. Bodybuilders are known to be explosive. 6 to 10 reps and 3 to 5 sets are an excelent way to gain explosive strength. Because of this, many bodybuilders can achieve excellent speeds at short distances, but they're not capable of running particularly long. Most strongmen work out with regular weights. At least they do n the local gym. At the local gym they train with few reps and they're not enduring. Plyometrics are used mostly to increase in speed. Explosive strength is eg. how much you can deadlift, squat, benchpress etc. ONCE, regardless of how much endurance or speed you've got.

NO! Explosive strength is eg. how much you can deadlift, squat, benchpress etc. ONCE[b] This statement is incorrect what you are describing is maximal strength. Explosive strength has few definitions but this is definitely not one of them! The concept has an element of time. Most commonly defined as the ability to exert maximal forces in minimal time. Therefore the atheletes with the most explosive strength are fast powerlifters. They lift in the 1-4 rep range and perform dynamic effort work with 50% of 1RM for speed. This is not anything like a body builder training to failure. In fact training to failure is one of the worse things you can do to develop explosive strength.

This is different to the concept of an athlete being explosive. You are right in that plyometrics and ballistic strength training focuses more on the speed-strength end of the strength spectrum but this is what most people think of as explosive which is why I used it in this fashion. If someone said explosive athlete I would think of a shot putter or an olympic lifter. Neither of these train using bodybuilding techniques.

aries is spot-on with his definition.

strength: amount of muscle fibers activates per motor unit
explosivity/ speed strength: amount of muscle fibers activater per motor unit over time.

some powerlifters, like louie simmons, advocate occasional workouts with very submaximal loads and focus on a fast rep execution. doing so will force your muscles into a higher activation rate, not via raw load but via the task of getting that weight up there as fast as possible (under control, of course). you can absolutely expect some carryover to your max strength that way.
you can test your upper body explosivity by making plyometric pushups: do you even manage to leave the floor? can you clap? if so, more than once? (the second time clapping will be behind your back)

now, id be quite interested to know:

- how comes that at first, you advocated against jogging, which is an aerobic activity, and now run storm with the same arguments against sprinting, which is not an aerobic exercise? mixed something up in the process?

- how comes that you constantly preach that anaerobic workout kills muscle mass, yet all your bulk derives from anaerobic workouts?

Then my english isn't perfect.



Most bodybuilders don't train to failure. Bill Pearl warns against this on his web-site.

Most bodybuilders do fast lifts up and slow lifts down (I hope you understand what I mean).



Haven't tried this for years, but I never got good at it.



My point was the walking was more efficient than jogging.



If you eg. do only benchpress, then the body will in theory loose muscles everywhere but the muscles primarily and secondarily activated during the benchpress. I mainly advocated against anaerobic cardio sessions.

so...

for some weird reason, you say that all kind of weight work makes muscle grow. weight work is run on anaerobic energy pathways. were agreeing on that so far?

then, you say that you are against endurance workouts in the anaerobic area - so sprinting few short bursts with tons of pause inbetween, so as not to exhaust the energy system, must be okay, in your worldview, because its as much anaerobic activity as weightlifting.

so, the culprit seems to be the difference in training the energy pathway (endurance sessions) contra training muscle while just using said pathways.


unfortunately, that makes no sense at all, as anaerobic pathways do not run off fat or protein at all - aerobic pathways do: walking just as well as jogging.
the only thing that links anaerobic endurance training and body fat is the mentioned effect of the body burning fat after the workout session. note that the sources say fat, not protein.
note also that the activity itself obviously cant kill muscle mass either, due to sheer intensity of stimulus, if nothing else (what you claim for benchpressing stimulating growing performance in benchpressing muscles).

i plainly dont see where your claims should hold foot, except that if all you exclusively did was sprinting interval workouts, that youd obviously change from a bodybuilder to a sprinter. but we never talked about exclusively training endurance, we were talking about what kind of endurance training complements an overall training program best (in the original thread context, what kind of endurance workout works best with strength training to achieve lower body fat).
on the other hand, i do see how it burns body fat excessively, i do see how it increases stamina and i do see how it can increase vo2max.