Logic and the female mind
So, I'm not an expert in any of these things, and I'm telling you so now, so if you disagree with anything I say you can tell me so in a calm, polite, and thoughtful manner.. I want honest opinions and knowledge about this so I can better understand myself.
I've heard that people with AS are generally very logical people. The "extreme male mind" though I don't think that describes it quite right. It's why many people that have it are considered cold and uncaring, because the logic of something is more important than the emotion of it.
I've also heard that women, in general, are emotional beings. The logic is there, but can be easily pushed aside because the emotion is too important.
I seem to have a very weird imbalance of these two things. I can completely see the logic, and see how it's important, but the emotion takes over. It doesn't take over enough for me to completely see the logic, and the logic can't take over enough to push the emotion aside.
As a basic example, I used to get very upset hearing about my boyfriend's ex-girlfriends. Logically I completely understood that he had been with others before me, and was likely to enjoy some of them more than me. It's how things work. But I would still get upset to the point of crying. I would sit there, thinking how incredibly stupid it was for me to cry, but I couldn't stop myself.
I'm better with this, thankfully, but I still do it in other situations. He makes me angry and I just cry, instead of just telling him what he did wrong.
I see the logic, and feel stupid, but I can't stop the emotion. Does anyone else experience this? Or do you think it's something different? I have not been clinically diagnosed with AS but sincerely believe I have it.
I don't know what to tell you, except that, while we seem to have some degree of choice in what we think, we seem to have very little choice in how feel. Our feelings are not good or bad, they're just what we feel, and while we should not simply disregard what we feel, we can think of our feelings as clouds, passing in the sky.
I don't think it's very kind of your boyfriend to continue to talk about his exs in light of how you feel about it. I don't think you have to think it's okay. I think most women, AS and NT alike, would agree.
_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson
If you think about it it is also not very logical to have a meltdown and a lot of us do this anyway. I think it all boils down to the fact that understanding emotion and emotional response in most people with AS is a bit off so to speak.
I can certainly understand your being upset by your boyfriend talking about his previous girlfriends. When I first moved in with my boyfriend, who is now my husband, I found some pictures of his X girlfriend and it made me so upset that everytime I thought about it I would cry. I finally told him about a year later that it hurt me that he kept them....why I waited to tell him I dont know. Maybe I was afraid that he would want to keep them or looking at them would make him want her back....silly on my part, I know.
I also tend to cry when I get angry I think mainly because I become so overwhelmed with a strong emotion that I am unable to verbalize. Once at my job my co worker was away on vacation. I was so happy to be able to work alone but instead of being able to recognize what was happening to me I had an emotional breakdown the day before she was to come back to work. My boss was actually very understanding and took me into her office to help me calm down but I couldnt tell her why I was so upset, I just sat there and cried....talk about feeling silly not to mention illogical.
I think sometimes my emotional response is very immature and over the top and then there are other times when I just dont respond at all.
Emotion is logic. It's just a different type of logic than intellect is. Think of it as parallel processing. Information goes into the brain, it's processed in various ways, you get both thoughts and feelings as a result. You examine your thoughts and feelings and choose appropriate action based on both thoughts and feelings.
When your thinking says "ought" or "should" and your heart tells you otherwise, your thinking is wrong or not sophisticated enough. Cast about and find a solution that respects both points of view, if you can. If you can't, upgrade your intellectual theories. It is your intellect's job to understand and integrate your emotions, not suppress them. Not easy, but ultimately worth it.
I cry easily, too.
I agree that emotions are not "wrong" or "illogical" inherently. Nonetheless, if I feel a certain way, I want to know why, and how I got there, and put it into language somehow, to make it as understandable as possible and know what to do from there. There's always a trigger of some sort in my case that I can identify. It does bug me in other people when they're upset and they can't tell why, though I try not to show it beyond asking questions and trying to pinpoint the source of the problem. I can't imagine being upset without there being something to be upset about. I guess that's the point at which emotions might seem illogical, when they stem from nothing, or nothing that the person feeling is aware of. :\
When your thinking says "ought" or "should" and your heart tells you otherwise, your thinking is wrong or not sophisticated enough. Cast about and find a solution that respects both points of view, if you can. If you can't, upgrade your intellectual theories. It is your intellect's job to understand and integrate your emotions, not suppress them. Not easy, but ultimately worth it.
I cry easily, too.
Emotions can be logical, but Not always! Perhaps thats why we have the ability to override them in certain circumstances. Might I add Anemone: emotions DO NOT come from the heart! I really dont understand where this weird idea came from but the center of emotion is in lower parts of the brain below the outer cortex-what is referred to as the midbrain. Also the 2nd paragraph-WHERE did you come up with such a Unversal conclusion??? How can you measure the sophistication of thinking that way and how do you ever define such an adverb? There ARE cases where overriding your emotions produces the best long term results. But anyhow, I dont think women are any more "emotional than men, however I Do think that womens emotions factor in to decision making to a greater extent than mens do. As evidenced by the 2nd paragraph about.
I think you are correct in identifying that this can be an issue for women.
I find that as a female I am expected to react to situations emotionally. That I might operate logically often provokes people to comment on this as though it was an aberration of my sex. The lack of emotion shown at times has caused peers to accuse me of being callous, frigid and lacking in femininity. As much as evidence might be put forward for the assertion, I think a description of AS as an ‘extreme male mind’ does a disservice to all the females who have it.
MR_BOGAN
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Have a read about the corpus callosum part of the brain. Females have bigger ones than males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum
I think that may be the reason why more males than females have AS, the female brain can handle it better.
Males also have larger brains than females so that might make males more logical.
Sgrannel: Interesting how?
Pobodys_nerfect: I agree. If I'm happy, I'm like.. hyperactive happy. If I'm upset, the world is ending. It's annoying for me!
MrMark: I do think it's wrong for me to get SO upset over little things. I'm the kinda person that sees no point in putting effort into something that can't change.. so like crying over my boyfriend's ex's does nothing. And yet I can't stop myself. He doesn't talk about them much, and never in a way that hurts me on purpose, but it seems to me that normal people don't get that jealous and upset over it.
Liloleme: I feel the same way about my boy's old pictures. I hate seeing them, and I'm gonna ask him to get rid of some - like the ones of other girls butts -_- But I also cry over anything. Any big emotion makes me cry.. anger, annoyance, happiness, sadness, everything. I don't seem to be able to let it out in any other way, I can't scream or punch things or anything. It kinda sucks.
Anemone: I've really been working hard on joining the logic and the emotion. But I still just cry for no reason and then sit there telling myself how completely illogical I'm acting. I'm understanding it better than I ever have before, but I still can't seem to get them to "agree". I think I also just.. don't want to change.. I know myself now, you know? If that makes any sense...
Bokekaeru: I wouldn't say they're opposites or anything like that. I also totally understand what you mean. My boy will get himself all worked up and have no idea why, and I can't wrap my head around it. There's always something behind my emotions, even if it's silly. Sometimes I'll say I don't know what it is, but really, I just don't want to admit how silly I'm acting.
Haliphron: I agree, I don't think men are less emotional, they're just less likely to.. listen, I guess? Emotions play less of a role in their thought processes, because it's not "manly".
Viatorrose: Same here. Everyone completely expects me to be emotional and bitchy. And when I'm not, something's apparently wrong. The interesting thing for me is that other women expect me to never cry. I can be incredibly logical sometimes and guys think I'm weird, girls think that's normal? I dunno, hard to explain I guess. A lot of guys think it's really cool that I'm not so emotional sometimes, and are surprised when I actually cry over something.
KateShroud
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum
That's interesting. I can not multitask at all.
I think that may be the reason why more males than females have AS, the female brain can handle it better.
Males also have larger brains than females so that might make males more logical.
From what I've learned, males have larger brains, but a female brain contains around the same number of brain cells. They're just more closely packed. And what research can you present to back up your theory about male logic? Male brains eventually shrink anyway. I'm very logical. I'm not getting all emotional and upset over your post. I'm only curious.
princesseli
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Joined: 7 Jan 2008
Age: 35
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Posts: 512
Location: Honolulu HI/ Los Angeles CA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum
That's interesting. I can not multitask at all.
I think that may be the reason why more males than females have AS, the female brain can handle it better.
Males also have larger brains than females so that might make males more logical.
From what I've learned, males have larger brains, but a female brain contains around the same number of brain cells. They're just more closely packed. And what research can you present to back up your theory about male logic? Male brains eventually shrink anyway. I'm very logical. I'm not getting all emotional and upset over your post. I'm only curious.
How is the aspie female brain work?
MR_BOGAN
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Joined: 5 Mar 2008
Age: 123
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,479
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum
That's interesting. I can not multitask at all.
I think that may be the reason why more males than females have AS, the female brain can handle it better.
Males also have larger brains than females so that might make males more logical.
From what I've learned, males have larger brains, but a female brain contains around the same number of brain cells. They're just more closely packed. And what research can you present to back up your theory about male logic? Male brains eventually shrink anyway. I'm very logical. I'm not getting all emotional and upset over your post. I'm only curious.
There is some evidence about female male brain differences in this youtube, it should explain it for you.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i29gtLz6ts[/youtube]
KateShroud
Veteran
Joined: 1 Feb 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,159
Location: Austin, Texas, United States, north America, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum
That's interesting. I can not multitask at all.
I think that may be the reason why more males than females have AS, the female brain can handle it better.
Males also have larger brains than females so that might make males more logical.
From what I've learned, males have larger brains, but a female brain contains around the same number of brain cells. They're just more closely packed. And what research can you present to back up your theory about male logic? Male brains eventually shrink anyway. I'm very logical. I'm not getting all emotional and upset over your post. I'm only curious.
There is some evidence about female male brain differences in this youtube, it should explain it for you.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i29gtLz6ts[/youtube]
Uh, this video was meant as a joke, right? LOL It was very educational. My brain's overloading. And what's that on my chin?
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