How to detect Narcissists (common partner for AS/Asperger's)

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Many AS people that I have met have had relationships with narcissists. I feel this is a vital issue in the AS community and often damages us if we do not learn to protect ourselves. This is something I wrote for an NPD survivors group. I am putting up 3 articles here.

Cory


Quick guide for detecting Narcissists

I am using the term "host" to refer to the person providing supply (Supply is not a person but a set of behaviors) and N to describe the NPD individual.
Caveat Lector (Read all of this with an eye on your personal experiences) Ns show in many different ways. Some are not even clearly abusive...but are still emotionally draining.

The Criteria are not always matched (Ns are not always clearly pathological):
These criteria are behaviors that I have seen over and over again. Ns, however, are idiosyncratic based on what image they are trying to project. This can make them difficult to detect. Women Ns are often the hardest. They tend to be slower moving (sometimes over many years) into the pathological relationship...whereas many men Ns (especially somatics) are fast and can be detected early. Ns are actually very common.



The pathological nature of what I call "functional N" is highly subdued. If you think of an N as a "virus"...the most successful one does not kill the host but keeps them in a state of long term illness with bouts of sickness. This is why many Ns are not detected...and the host is drained long term.

N is one thing and one thing alone... A need for a special kind of attention that most people only give people of higher status (supply). In fact once you know how supply works...Ns are the easiest people to "manipulate" (never do this unless you are unable to remove the N from your live). They only rage on ego damage....what causes that is usually not intended by the person being raged against or may even come from an outside source.

BPD vs. NPD
Many of these behaviors are also seen in borderline personality disorder. The borderline is not "smooth" and they actually alternate between deep emotions and numbness. The lies of the borderline are often more clumsy than the N. A BPD person has a different impulse...it is attention of all kinds (fear of abandonment). An N wants a special kind of attention.A borderline has a very painful ego. An N does not have ego pain. They are opposites that show similar behaviors.

Narcissistic traits vs NPD
The primary impulse of most people is a social one: forming and joining groups. The primary impulse of N is getting a type of attention that is reserved for superiors (supply). N behaviors happen in non-N people when they are given supply. These people can actually Un-N themselves if it starts destroying their lives or relationships.

Common N traits can exist in:
1. People who are very physically attractive in their culture (these people will show N traits to people who are not as "attractive" and show non-N traits to other "attractive people")
2. People who are in a position of power or have wealth.
3. People who are exposed to constant public attention.
"Supply" is addictive for most people (with the notable exception of ADD and AS...who tend to shun it or are scared by it)

ADD and AS often seem N like because of the self centric nature of these types. It is more a lack of understanding group dynamics and boundaries rather than seeking supply that makes ADD and AS seem N. (Some Ns are even diagnosed as ADD or vice versa)

Finally....
Last but not least...the only surefire way to know if you are dealing with an N...is that they are boundary probing and violating. The type of attention an N needs (the attention for a person of higher status..."supply") can only be proven when the boundaries of the host are truly crushed (very easy to fake crushed boundaries when you have good ones!..hint hint, ).


The N detecting guide

First things first (you):

1. You need to set personal boundaries in order to detect Ns. This means understanding how you yourself tick...what buttons do you have that can be pushed? How do you react when they are pushed? What set of consequences are going to be set in a relationship (all human relationships) when those buttons are pushed? I highly recommend pointed "life skills" therapy for any survivor of abuse.There is a reason that you became a survivor (in adult relationships) and that is insufficient relationship skill (not sticking to boundaries). Avoid forming close relationships until you have this figured out.

2. You must discard the notion that the actions other people take are driven by the same reasons you take them. ie smiling when you are happy does not equal the N smiling when they are manipulating.

3. You may have a weak ego... The N will aim for people with weak egos because we are easier to manipulate and through having a week ego....we are very careful not to hurt the egos of others. This is an N dream. Understand that in order to detect Ns, you must know your weaknesses. That is the door they enter through.

4. Once you have your personal boundaries in place....you are prepped to pick out Ns

What this describes.
These are common signs of N. I divided these up into stage of relationship but they may occur at any point in a relationship. I am avoiding discussing things that "non Ns" do that are often described as things Ns commonly do (Cheating, porn, physical/sexual abuse...etc..). Ns have one primary impulse and that is getting special attention. All roads lead to Rome and all actions lead to attention for the N.


First glimpse warning signs:

1. Highly self stereotyping
They are the "most" of what they are. There are no subtleties in N self marking. They usually choose a "theme" and mark highly following that theme. It can be anything from "nicest of nice guys" or "Earthiest and motherliest of earth Mothers" to "Machoest of macho men" or "Girliest of girlie girls" and "the indiviualest individualist. These themes are usually well worn stereotypes in the culture. Sometimes they can be difficult to see if the N is from a sub-culture or they "mix and match stereotypes". Always if you think "this person is the x-iest of xs", a red flag should go up.

2. Vocal cadence
There is a sing song cadence that is heard when Ns speak. The voice is smooth and rarely cracks. It is like a liquid voice and is highly controlled.

3. Facial and body gesture
The knowing grin, the smirk, the toothy smile, and the pouty offended look are all used at just the right moments to gain emotional control. These facial expressions are rarely changing in their expression (highly marked). You will notice that the N has very easy to read expressions with the exception of the "mystery look". This look is an idiosyncratic look that gets you to ask "what is on your mind?". An N is rarely "offended" but they need to act offended to manipulate. The "mystery" look plays into this by keeping you wondering if you have offended them or hurt their feelings.

4. Gate
The walk is purposeful and suggests importance above status or role. This also translates to driving in many cases... often acting like every trip on the road is urgent. Ns can be scary drivers. (Unless they are creating the "calm, nice guy" image)

5. Feigned Offense/ Dislike
This is common. It is the ego slap down. It is often referred to "brutal honesty" (ironic in N because there is so little honesty). You tell a joke that may be slightly off color and they respond "that was not funny...I had a friend once that....". They criticize without reason and when you act hurt...often "I am just being honest" is the refrain. That is the response to any boundary put up. "but I am just being X and you are soo X...get over it". (Translation: it is ok for me to do or say what I want because your feelings are not important)

6. Language usage
You can talk with an N for an hour and leave not having any real idea what the conversation was about. Somehow you end up having the impression that they are amazingly interesting and capable. The N language is about obfuscation. Hiding information in lingo is common. An argument with an N is never won because they will declare victory no matter how much you know. In a room full of subject experts an N can be very embarrassing... because they often do not really understand what they are talking about. If they ARE the expert... be prepared for intellectual jibes at any disagreement. Ns are purely language driven. In fact many Ns cannot deal well with "non-verbal" people.

7. Confidence (Ego syntonic nature)
I see this as "smooth approach". Nervousness is never expressed in voice or body language (it may well be said in words). They are rarely nervous unless there is a possible ego damaging interaction. They often seem very odd if you ever watch them when they think they are alone...they may even seem like an unrecognizable person.

8. Name dropping
Some Ns drop names. Often famous or nearly famous people...even someone who is popular in the group. They will even "make up names" by elevating a friend into a higher status than they really are. "I know this guy...he is soooo.... we talked about this and that...". This sounds like such an obvious sign...but they can be so smooth in letting you know that they are "important". Often they will lead you into "accidentally discovering" their "connections.

9. Mismatcher Male
An instant attraction and flirtation followed by the N making himself scarce until you seek him out...then alternating between hot and cold signals. The female version of this is aggressive...often seeking out the guy...showing clear interest then letting them dangle on their own excitement. This creates the chase. The supply for women Ns is different than men in that the woman often seeks supply that is more directly "do things for me...and I might be nice".

10. Ego stroking
Praise that is not specific. "You are elegant!" as opposed to "I like your hair, where did you get it done?". This type of comment keeps the attention flow aimed at the N. The ego stroking brings the host in for the N to see if they should attach. If you respond very positively to general praise...this is often a sign of a weak ego.

Early relationship warning signs:

1. Boundary Pushing
At the first sign of a simple stated boundary, the N will find a way to defeat it. Often it is done in a very sneaky way that draws attention away from the broken boundary (ie so the N cannot be blamed). Example: You set a boundary. " I don't eat fatty foods"...The N then invites 3 "friends over that only like fatty foods and prepares a fantastic fatty meal that you cannot eat. This can then be turned on you "I made this great meal and you refused to eat it...embarrassing my guests". If you do eat it...the boundary is crushed and you will be rewarded with praise.

2. "Come to Jesus meetings"
This is the N "boundary setting". The boundaries for Ns are ever increasing in height. This keeps the focus on the Ns needs and away from your own. When you violate a boundary (almost always unspoken) you will have to have a confession. The priest is the N and you are the sinner. Your boundaries are "impractical, selfish and silly" the Ns boundaries (which are often truly those things) are important, necessary for the relationship, and real.

3. X-ism
Ns love isms... the most common type is "racism"...but sexism, bigotry and general intolerance for anything out of their "image" are not tolerated. The most clear "racism" often happens in Ns that are visibly different from the majority that exists in their environment and is aimed at those who are different. This leads to "funny" things such as a Mexican American that hates people of Mexican ancestry or an Italian woman that hates only Italian men. If they are not clearly different than the surrounding population...they will often take on the most vehement ism tolerable in their environment.

Male Ns are always misogynists and Female Ns always are man haters. They often sugar coat their sexism and tell their opposite gendered partner that they are the only "man" or "woman" that breaks the mold. "You are my last hope for men!"..."Other women are so X but you are different"

4. Status and role marking
Ns are status driven. The most functional Ns grab status and do what it takes to maintain it...many destroy their status through risk taking that is part of the psychology. Most people have sensitive egos that can sense ego damage and alter course before disaster strike. The N is the captain of a "Titanic" that cannot see the icebergs until he/she plows right into it. Some functional Ns have learned early on how they can loose their supply and find ways to avoid crashing into the icebergs.

5. Situational and changing personal boundaries
Ns create boundaries that shift in order to keep the host guessing. One moment they hate X kind of "food", entertainment...etc... Then the next they are offended that you did not include them in the things they set boundaries on. It is a catch 22. "It makes me nervous when you approach me with sex on your mind" followed by..."why don't you act sexually attracted to me?"

6. Ego stroking (You are "the first.....")
As stated in X-ism... The N often creates a special pedestal for you...that is way up in the clouds. Every time you do not give the N what they need...you fall off the pedestal and the N gracefully rescues you from the fall...then begins the slow grudging hoisting of you back up there so you can fall again.

7. Pseudo "Kow towing"
An N will often pretend that you are a "task master" and you work "him/her" so hard. This makes you even more likely to expect less from them while they expect more from you. A stay at home mom that complains about the hard work raising the children then makes sure you know how tough her role is and that you do not do enough to clean...When the children nap for hours during the day and she does not clean. A man that complains about the simple tasks that he has around the house when he usually is sitting on his butt. In either case...there is only feigned guilt and little attempt to change...while you are expected to change your entire being through the "come to Jesus" meetings.

8. Sentence completion
In an early relationship, because an N is so observant of patterns that you have and ways that you speak and think...they often set up sentence completion. This is a "psychic" parlor trick that is simply based on the superior observations that the N makes. It is reverse mirroring that shows you that you are indeed his/her soul mate. It works like this: An observed pattern of thinking is expressed and the N knows the "punch line" before you do. Understand that an Ns primary impulse in life is getting supply...all of their attention and focus is put into that. The reverse mirror is set when they create clear readable sentence patterns and thoughts that are closely related to yours....they set up the sentence and speak slowly and thoughtfully and allow you to complete it. Humans are very heavily pattern based and all manipulators use this to their advantage.

9. Soul mate
"But you are my soul mate!" They use parlor tricks to convince you that they are...often you are seeking that soul mate and here comes the perfect person. Just like you...the only one that can understand you. All positive efforts by the N are to convince you of this. Often you are the first one to utter the words "You are my soul mate". You are now in the "web". Now the negative efforts begin every time you wiggle.

10. The Binary Star
There is a picture in astronomy of a star that has collapsed into a black hole that is next to a red giant...sucking all of the gas from it. You are the red giant and they are the black hole. The binary system involves spending almost all of your time with the N to the neglect of all other vital relationships. Their friends become your new friends as you are "woven" into their network of supply. They often will use your name or your presence when making their own statement. "Laura and I feel that you are being petty", "We really enjoy your company" (when you actually don't). They even take it to the extent that they will send out correspondence that you are unaware of and add your name "Love, Bill and Laura".
http://homepages.donobi.net/celestial/a ... /learn.htm

11. Weighing and Balancing
Decisions that involve any level of possible ego damage require a long drawn out weighing and balancing process. In a person that otherwise seems impulsive and "seat of the pants" this just seems plain odd...until you see the pattern.

12. Mirroring
Mirroring the host starts in the early relationship until the "binary star system" is completed. Once the binary star is complete...just like the Borg "Your uniqueness is incorporated". This means a new identity. The mirrored identity is close enough to who you are enough to be "doable" but slightly uncomfortable. This mirrored identity...then takes on the "uniqueness of other sources of supply. The drain becomes very strong at this point. You are not only living for yourself and the N but now the other people brought in as supply. This creates a condition of near insanity at time. You lose yourself in the odd mix. All of this is built through the ego....and N partners must have a weak one that can help the N subjugate the self of the host. This is where the beginning of the traumatic stress begins. In the established relationship... it is enforced by the rages.



Established Relationship warning signs

1. Controlled use of emotion
After the pattern is entrenched in the early relationship...the ship departs the port with the N as captain and you as the onboard activities coordinator that must be gracious to all of the guests and vicious to the ones that violate the rules of the captain. The emotions of the N are controlled highly in this stage to keep the "ship on course"...The N does not care where the ship is going as long as they are the one that everyone thinks is steering the ship (They are usually asleep at the wheel). Silent treatments, feigned hurt and even suicidal actions happen whenever you do not do the bidding of the captain. The jealousy that happens if you spend more time with the other supply is rewarded with shutting out the other supply (or you) and manipulating emotions. You must like the others but only enough to keep them thinking that the captain is steering the ship...even if it is you at the helm.

2. Rage
Rages become more common. They are nearly impossible to figure out until you trace back all actions you have done that leads to the rage...or see the actions of other supply that have caused it. The rages are the least manipulative but most scary part of an N. You can often see through their armor. This leads to a period of extreme controlled behavior by the N to "was away" the fouls effects of the rage.

3. Physical complaints
There seems to be a compromised "system" in many Ns. They often have chronic conditions (real or imagined). The symptoms often create a "disorder or disease that stumps doctors (often they end up assigning a syndrome to it). Irritable Bowel Syndrome is common in people who are very stressed out...some Ns have a version of this when the rages are controlled. They may even soil themselves during rages. The rage is fully physical with a relaxing of smooth muscle and everything that entails. It is true "fight or flight". Just imagine how you would react if someone was chasing you with a knife.

4. The mind reader
You must be a mind reader. All attempts at clear communication are thwarted (often in the very act of trying to "fix" the communication problems)


Long term relationship warning signs

1. The Drama Triangle
http://www.ta-tutor.com/!dratri/xdrallp.htm
You are living in this and have become an active participant. The energy is put into it by the N. There is little "misery" for the N in this scheme.
Excerpt:
The Drama Triangle shows the dramatic roles that people
act-out in daily life that are unstable, unsatisfactory, repeated,
emotionally competitive, and generate misery and discomfort for
both people, sooner or later.
The switching that occurs between
Persecutor - Rescuer - Victim

2. Crazy Making
All things that make the host feel crazy. The most common ones are light switches and door locking. This creates obsessive compulsive behaviors in children and causes adults to question their sanity. This helps the N, not only keep control but also feed altered versions of mutually experienced events/history that support the N's ego image.

3. Reaction to N-partner self caring
All attempts of the host to take care of their needs will be seen as an attack on the N+ Partner binary system. A diet (unless imposed on you by the N), going to school, spending time with friends and going to the gym are all self caring activities that will bring retribution. This pattern is often hard to see. The N will act supportive many times but sabotage by creating time conflicts and scheduling events or vacations that are meant to disrupt the "self caring".

4. Long term memory issues
Memory must be altered in order to maintain ego. Over a long term relationship, this becomes very clear. The reality of the N starts to crumble and the host will question this reality...often bringing rage.

5. Projection
At the point a relationship has survived to become long term, projection becomes severe. All fears and desires of the N along with all things they cannot question about themselves gets placed on the host. The host becomes "just like" the parent that they learned to resent. The strange behaviors of the N are projected on the host.

6. Couples counseling
Be prepared to go through counselors until the N has one that acts as supply or accepts the reality of the N.

7. Divorce
http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/divorcebook.html

Somatic and Cerebral and some of their unique signs:

Cerebral signs

1. Books (The symbolic nature)
Books, even if they are not read are high symbols of intellect and must be place in a prominent place...They are often neat and ordered even if the house is a shambles. CNs rarely dispose of books and any defacement can cause rage.
2. Fears
Ghosts and paranormal events are a common fear/and or fascination. Often beyond simple interest.

3. "Save the World" systems of ego aggrandization.
Being members and leaders of "save the world" type groups and religions with bizarre displays of devotion to the concepts.

4. The circular argument
All arguments lead nowhere and often devour themselves through their own lack of logic, background knowledge and contradiction. The most common argument themes are ontological, religious and epistemological...all things that are difficult to "prove or disprove" and have lots of fancy big words that sound impressive (CNs love big words that are confusing and will explain them in a disgusted manner if you do not know them). They monitor your language for malapropisms often while making there own. They love to quibble on your terminology...often turning the discussion into a defensive one with regards to your words.
CNs are the wordiest of wordy people...Don't confuse this with asperger's syndrome which often uses idiosyncratic words because they do not see how "big words" are really "big words".

5. Disdain of body functions
Pooping, peeing and farting are weaknesses that the host should not show. There is a serious sense of the sanctity of "mind over body". Often avoids "messy" things like sex.

4. People as symbols of intellect
A partner must be smart, witty and perfectly spoken. Brilliant children heading into amazing careers...white smiles and a fancy education to keep the image alive.


Somatic signs

1. Religiosity and rules
Often a believer... the host must show the same systems of belief or be considered wicked. All goals must be matched with the N's goals.

2. Order and secrecy
Secrecy is even more important that really doing something wrong. This helps keeps the host in a state of fear of loss. (Cerebrals often use "extreme openness/brutal honesty" to accomplish the same thing)

3. Sex and Body image
The body is held above all things (of the N OR the host)...often there is a very strong "straight edge" nature of avoiding all things that may hurt the body. These people may even keep the vitamin industry alive. There is a serious sense of the sanctity of "body over mind". Ask an SN what weighs more..a pound of brain or a pound of muscle, muscle will be the answer

4. People as jewelry
A partner must be fit, beautiful and perfect even if the N is not. Trophy wife, perfect children...white smiles and a picket fence to keep the image alive.


Grandiose Psychopath or Psychopathic Narcissist signs (N+P)

In addition to the above signs of N...these are added. This is the most dangerous type of human on the planet. Hitler, Stalin and Pol pot showed these signs
1. Iconic motivation
Simple attraction to iconic objects or simple themes. (shapes, geometry, symbols)

2. Rule formation
Strict and unrelenting rules imposed on the partner or family. The rules are more important than the person.

3. Possessive behaviors
Ownership is a primary driver in the P personality. There is strict control of all people in their life.
4. History of violent crime that involves theft and spontaneous violent outbursts

5. Fascination with torture or killing animals.

6. Highly planning and rage on failure to follow all set plans.

7. High pain threshold
They cut themselves and don't even wince

8. Munchausen by Proxy
A mother poisoning her children in order to gain attention. A man poisoning his partner to gain attention. If you or your children have long term and unremitting diseases...always very quietly save food samples for laboratory testing. Report positive testing results immediately to police and make sure your family is not present when the person is apprehended.

9. Very low blink rate
They never seem to blink and often make unbroken eye contact.

10. Sadistic or humiliating sexual acts.
Forcing you to eat excrement or drink their pee and vice versa...often they want to be humiliated as well. Hot wax on sensitive skin. Pain and violent bondage.

With all types of N The biggest sign of all is:
When your boundaries are in place...they find ways to circumvent them. This is the clincher. A person can have many of the traits above but if they respect your boundaries.
I recommend having 2 things in a relationship. Your personal constitution and your relationship constitution. I highly recommend writing these things down and having them in place for easy access.

1. Personal constitution ("Statement of boundaries")
Detecting an N through personal boundaries. Write down your boundaries, consequences and follow them religiously. An N will go away when these are followed. Ns have to be invited in...they will not be if you ask who they are before opening the door.

2. Relationship Constitution ("The agreed upon rules for both people that incorporates their boundaries")
Detecting an N through relationship constitution. The N will spend most of their time documenting your transgressions and never admitting to their own...QED.



Anyway...I know this is long but it holds things I have observed personally, my models predict and information I have gathered over the years. I hope this can help you see the patterns and feel that you are not alone. Ns are actually pretty simple creatures...not the mysterious demons of the night

Only one thing can protect you from Ns and that is strong boundary setting.

Wow!! That was an excellent post, Chain. I think I am married to one these Ns! He fits the criteria almost perfectly except for some of the weirder elements. (sexual avoidance or humiliation and the wife and kids must look perfect)(But come to think of it, we must BE perfect). I have struggled in this relationship for 13 years and had a heck of a time warding off the impulse to seperate or divorce! A professional psychologist diagnosed him with ADHD, which is probably the case but does not account for all of his strange behavior. Thanks for the info.

I was reading a book called Social Intelligence: The New Science of Success (Karl Albrecht) at Borders yesterday; and, in its chapter "Authenticity," it described some key characteristics of narcissists that make them difficult for therapists to treat (I do not remember them verbatim):

• Inability to see themselves as others see them
• Lack of empathy
• Propensity to shame over guilt
  

Regarding Karl Albrecht's characterization of President Ronald Reagan, I found that same excerpt on his website just now by searching Google:

Reading through the criteria, neither my boyfriend nor, (more importantly, since I'm stuck with myself for life), myself fit very many of these criteria. One thing I have always done, even as a little kid, is finish people's sentences; however I dont do it to manipulate people inot thinknig I can read their mind, I do it to expediate conversation and because it's a sort of compulsion if someone is floundering for a word to finish their sentence.

After reading more about Narsicists (sp.?) I'm a little depressed. I don't know if there's much hope for my husband or our relationship. When the author of the article mentioned something about "draining" the host, I could definately relate! I always describe my mate as "high-maintainance". I've told him he's lucky that I'm not like most women; I'm basically an "easy-keeper". (basically, just food, water, and fresh air is all I need). I do feel like I get all of the life sucked out of me though! In fact, I've been telling a friend for years that I'm going to write a book entitled "Things That Suck Joy" and at the top of the list would be husbands!

Reagan sounds like an Aspie who was good at socializing. It's an interesting post, Chain. I fit a lot of the criteria you posted, but I would think so do a lot of people. Many of the narcisstic traits are useful in socializing, and interacting with other people. A large part of successful socializing lies in the ability to manipulate other people. The possession of these traits, nor the ability to manipulate are in themselves dangerous. It's in how they are used. I do not think, however, that this is a problem we should be focussing on and worried about. If anything, Aspies are better placed to resist a narcissist's manipulations than the average population. There is nothing stopping you from having a good relationship with a narcissist. It's probably a good thing, because a lot of Aspies have narcisstic personalities. The real problem NPD poses for WP is when they are in power, and when their egos are hurt, they abuse their positions to get rid of the offender. Time and time again, at many different places, I've seen this happen. The secrecy and lack of accountability for the administration leads to all sorts of issues.

Two things in defense of Reagan-

He was an ACTOR for God's sake!

While I probably would always recognize my own children, I do have alot of trouble recognizing people and so does my AS son. I think that the clues that we use to determine if we know someone are different; things like overall shape, shading and color, and voice; not details like eye, nose, mouth.
Also, Reagan had Alzheimer's. Maybe it was coming on sooner than people think?

A brilliant and interesting post (though shame about the avatar Chain )

May I suggest it's also posted in, or copied into, the Work forum? Most of it is relevant to work relationships, and many bosses too.

Keeno wrote: (though shame about the avatar Chain )



What!!?? I adore that avatar!! I want one just like it!

I was adopted too and my parents forgot about me and left me behind in public places all the time! (Hmmm....wonder if they really 'forgot'? ) Parents make mistakes.
(I wonder if my parents will get Alzheimer's?)

I can usually pick a narcissist by their repulsively selfish and imposing behaviour. They try to "own" people's minds and they usually succeed. I realy feel sorry for the people they dominate, it's a disgusting thing to see happen. Usually when the process is complete, their victim adores them because they pretty-much ARE them. As far as I'm aware, the only thing that frees the mind of a narccisist's victim is the complete, mental breakdown that happens later. Sorry if I seem bitter but I've seem them ruin lives, relationships and people's physical and mental health. There's just no excuse for what they do to people because they know very well what they are doing.

I rekon NPD is like the complete opposite of AS, hence the outward similarities. I also think BPD is unrelated to NPD. Borderline personalities and schizophrenics are nice people in my experience, manipualtive though they can be. I've also seen an acute, paranoid delusional fall hopelessly for narccisist after narccisist (and one aspie). Sad but interesting.

I'm pretty sure that narcissism is listed as a personality disorder in the DSM.

These people are really dangerous. They're really sick people. I had an unfortunate experience with a narcissist, and this person fit every single criteria in the book.

I do think this is a crucial issue in the aspie community as you say. It is a VERY important issue because so many of us are socially niave and we can easily succumb to someone who is narcissistic and therefore out to exploit and abuse others. These narcissists are out looking for people with social vulnerabilties so that they can abuse us. Yes, definitely, aspies are very vulnerable to narcissists.

I really like that part in the article above about writing a relationship constitution. I think a set of rules like that would have helped me to stay grounded and not let this abusive person into my life.

Anandamide, if your experience was anything like the one I saw my friend go through then you have my sympathy. I hope you recovered well.
It makes my blood boil when the narcissist just moves on to the next person and never gets what's coming to them.
I assumed you were a guy (because of the name for some reason) untill I read your post and thought "How many males get abused by female narcissists...how many female narcissists could there be?".