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TheHouseholdCat
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13 Mar 2012, 8:50 am

If we want to know everything there is to know about the world, i. e. acquire a Godlike state, we make pacts with the Devil. It's obvious what that means. If you want to know how things work, it's bad. You're not supposed to know how things work. Walk around life in a zombie-like state. :lol:


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lostinthewoods
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17 Mar 2012, 10:17 pm

I'm a non-believer, so I may be wrong because I'm not a religion expert, but isn't the tree of knowledge the one that Eve was seduced by the snake to eat its fruits (apple) and consequently lost the Paradise's pleasures? So knowledge is evil according to the Bible book. The more you know, the far you get from God. It actually makes sense... I think science is fallible, but it is still the best we have. The rest is fable.


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gogeyi
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18 Mar 2012, 12:14 am

Fnord wrote:
Why is science demonized in people's minds? Not just in their minds, but in both secular and religious institutions?

I mean, the body of science doesn't start wars, cause famine, or create natural disasters. Nor does it raise taxes, foreclose on homes, or addict children to crack cocaine. It is the politicians, business people, nature, and criminals that do these things.

So why is science given such a bum rap?


Ignorance really. People are afraid of what they don't understand. Also, people hate/reject anything that disagrees with their fundamental beliefs. It's hard to have your mind changed about things that are just supposed to be fact. At least, for most people.

I love science because it constantly challenges my perspective/opinion/perception.



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20 Mar 2012, 2:37 pm

Fnord wrote:
Why is science demonized in people's minds? Not just in their minds, but in both secular and religious institutions?

I mean, the body of science doesn't start wars, cause famine, or create natural disasters. Nor does it raise taxes, foreclose on homes, or addict children to crack cocaine. It is the politicians, business people, nature, and criminals that do these things.

So why is science given such a bum rap?


People fear change. And science is powerful. It is something that can be abused and manipulated to cause all the things you listed. Studies can be manipulated to affect public opinion. It can be used to make things that kill or spread fear. And people don't understand these things very well.



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20 Mar 2012, 3:14 pm

Isn't there a general demonization of all reason?


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ruveyn
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25 Mar 2012, 11:30 am

Neuromancer wrote:
Isn't there a general demonization of all reason?


Reason, at this moment, is not experiencing its greatest admiration and respect.

Too much religion and not enough hard edge logic and rationality. Religion is the enemy of reason.,

ruveyn



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25 Mar 2012, 4:51 pm

I've been thinking about the following.

An educational reform ocurred here, at Brazil, by the 70'ths. Until that time, young students used to opt between a "classical" formation, including emphasys on languages and very few maths, chemistry and physics, and a "scientifical" course, with a higher weight at sciences.

After the reform all student had to perform the same scientific course.

I am very sure most of them hates maths and sciences.

I've been thinking the educational sistem can be responsible for this original hate to maths and science. By old times, I think, people used to reverence science ,that now they hate.


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25 Mar 2012, 5:00 pm

Science can never really be demonized I do not demonize Science its a big interests of mine I like all types of feild of science I really like Biology the main reason is religion because religion doesnt call for new information but science does and that is my opinon though I am a devout christian an a methodist who goes to church every sunday but science is a good thing.



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25 Mar 2012, 5:06 pm

Maybe people resent science because it is sold to them in the wrong way. For example, if I were a religious creationist, I probably wouldn't appreciate someone telling me, "Science is about finding out what's true! And we found out that evolution is true!" I would probably prefer it if they explained that science is a sort of game where we try to find certain kinds of explanations, and use specific criteria to decide which explanation is better. Then they could tell me that creationism isn't a good scientific theory since it is less parsimonious than the theory of evolution. (Evolution only presupposes physics and the idea that there was a replicating molecule; creationism presupposes a divine architect.)

Then I would be more likely to read about evolution, and eventually I might accept it.



ruveyn
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25 Mar 2012, 11:14 pm

Declension wrote:
(Evolution only presupposes physics and the idea that there was a replicating molecule; creationism presupposes a divine architect.)

.


Believers could very well see the laws of physics as the Will of the Creator. The problem is not with people who believe in a Creator God, but with people who take the Bible literally.

ruveyn



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26 Mar 2012, 1:00 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The problem is not with people who believe in a Creator God, but with people who take the Bible literally.


Is there anybody that really takes the bible literally? or most of those who pretend to do it takes literally only convenient bible parts?

Is there anybody who denies physics, radiation decay, and who really adopts literally bibles moral?


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ImMe
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04 Apr 2012, 11:37 am

Fnord wrote:
Why is science demonized in people's minds? Not just in their minds, but in both secular and religious institutions?


It is arguable whether or not we can take anything for granted as fact. There are aspects to physics that are shown to be paradoxical; metaphysics being a large part of the problem, not to mention all the issues that philosophy raises in trying to distinguish anything from anything else.

In a sense, science can be legitimately thought of as magic, as anything can be. Some believe life is a dream, but I know that misses the point. Given that the only absolute philosopher's seem to agree on is that the world is change, it's probably that we are the world defining itself; given that time connects all things and that it is relative, we can show that the world without definition can not be perfectly analyzed and understood by any formula; rather consciousness or life is that formula. We are not just our consciousness, but that which is without consciousness, and that seeming disorder and chaos of eternal change is a purpose in itself to understand or define itself.

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I mean, the body of science doesn't start wars, cause famine, or create natural disasters. Nor does it raise taxes, foreclose on homes, or addict children to crack cocaine. It is the politicians, business people, nature, and criminals that do these things.


This isn't necessarily true; it depends on the story and how it is told.

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So why is science given such a bum rap?


What isn't given a bum rap at one point or another? Why should science be an exception, as if it has no relation to anything else?



Tom5
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04 Apr 2012, 2:53 pm

Science was never demonized in my mind. In fact it is religion that never made any sense to me whatsoever.

For me it makes no sense to demonize science given the apparent evidence that God is in fact nonexistent.



ruveyn
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04 Apr 2012, 6:29 pm

Tom5 wrote:
Science was never demonized in my mind. In fact it is religion that never made any sense to me whatsoever.

For me it makes no sense to demonize science given the apparent evidence that God is in fact nonexistent.


The only people "demonizing" science are the religious crackpots whose beliefs are threatened by the facts that the physical sciences reveal. Biblical literalists simply cannot live with the probable age of the cosmos, about 13.5 billion years. Their literalism forces them to believe the universe is only 6000 years old.

ruveyn



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04 Apr 2012, 7:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Tom5 wrote:
Science was never demonized in my mind. In fact it is religion that never made any sense to me whatsoever.

For me it makes no sense to demonize science given the apparent evidence that God is in fact nonexistent.


The only people "demonizing" science are the religious crackpots whose beliefs are threatened by the facts that the physical sciences reveal. Biblical literalists simply cannot live with the probable age of the cosmos, about 13.5 billion years. Their literalism forces them to believe the universe is only 6000 years old.

ruveyn


i have seen plenty of people with little obvious religious motivation take an anti intellectual aproach,
ot that they were directly against any and all things science.

not that i disagree most of this issue does seem to stem from bronze age ideology


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06 Apr 2012, 5:20 pm

Science is a threat to all the useless freeloaders who have found an easy way to get by without doing any real work, simply by exploiting people's stupidity. I'm talking about fortune tellers, snake oil salesmen, mediums, homeopaths, priests, witch doctors, cardinals, shamans and popes. And many politicians aren't much better. They too play on people's superstitions and irrational fears to gain money and power. These people fear knowledgeable minds and skeptic inquiry like the plague.