Windows is crap

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Do you like windows??
Poll ended at 27 May 2013, 4:22 pm

I use it regularly, it is my favourite operating system	30%	[ 39 ]
I only use it because i dont know how to use any others	5%	[ 7 ]
I have a dual boot and use two operating systems	16%	[ 20 ]
I only use it because of its compatibility	17%	[ 22 ]
I dont like and i dont use it	23%	[ 30 ]
I dont really mind	8%	[ 10 ]

Total votes : 128

techn0teen
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03 Jul 2012, 3:31 pm

I am a computer science major and Linux is not one of my favorites. Windows 7 seems to be way more robust when it comes to installation than Linux.

Linux is better when it comes to amount of memory it requires and speed of running programs, but it isn't much in my experience.

Windows is better for me and my programming needs.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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04 Jul 2012, 2:27 am

auntblabby wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

I don't think it makes sense to stick with XP anymore. 7 has proven itself and barely has higher hardware requirements [ :huh:

]. I remember bringing a laptop with Whistler, the beta of XP, on a trip to Europe I took in 2001, so it is old.

i beg to differ on the point of higher hardware requirements. i ran all my audio restoration software and internet explorer/outlook express quite fine on wxp, but when i tried to run them on a celeron w7 machine it just acted like a big hot paperweight, crashing 1/2 of the time. and forget about websurfing, that little circular "wait a minute" thingie was just sittin' there circling itself for minutes at a time [while waiting for a webpage to load, that was laden with java and other sys. resource sappers] until the screen would go white and eventually a box would pop up saying "windows is not responding," sometimes- mostly the computer just sat there doing nothing in a locked-up state blocking my attempts at a soft-reboot until i was forced to hard-reboot the infernal thing. i could only get decent performance by getting a pentium multicore 2.3 with 6GB of RAM, merely to run the same apps that ran just fine on my old xp machine with 1/12th the RAM and 1/2 the effective cpu throughput speed. celerons mighta been ok with xp or 98se but when they're bundled with w7 they are good for nothing. so that is my experience which tells me that w7 is a huge resource hog compared with earlier windows versions such as XP and millenium and 98se.

Ok I should qualify that. You need 1GB of RAM to get acceptable performance in Windows 7. You needed 256MB-512MB in XP. That's the main difference. Well... Celeron? I barely even remember those. You were probably scraping the minimum on XP back in 2002. Yes, the system requirements are higher. You can at least run 7 on most machines that were well qualified for XP a decade ago though, save the increased RAM requirement. I had success on a 1.8GHz Pentium 4 with 1GB RAM. I built that machine in December 2001 with 256MB RAM. Empires have been won and lost since then. But you were really, really pushing it with that Celeron. You could have invested $100 and bought a more powerful machine used.

What web page uses Java anymore? I don't even have Java enabled.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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04 Jul 2012, 2:45 am

Jono wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

Jono wrote:

You aren't migrating to alternative platform if the only programs you run on that platform are the same ones you used before on Windows.

You're saying the OS doesn't matter, only the apps do. Then why would anyone switch OSes?

From my point of view, the main job of an operating system is to run other programs, therefore if you're not using any apps the apps that run natively on the OS you're not really using the OS. I think it's fine if you're using an emulator like WINE or a virtual machine to only run a few programs that don't have native counterparts but if you don't use any native programs at all then I don't see the reason for using a different OS. It would simply be better to use the OS where those programs run natively. For example, if you're using Linux while all your apps are really running in Windows installed on a virtual machine then why do have Linux installed in the first place? You are not really using Linux, you are still using Windows. If, however, they were the same apps that were natively ported to your new OS rather than ones that needed a virtual machine or emulator to run then that would be a different story.

As for why I would choose to switch OSes, I usually judge OSes based on how they do what I think is their main job, that is providing platform for running other programs and managing the resources to run those programs. For example, would rather use Windows XP instead of either Windows Vista or Windows 7 because the newer ones use up 4 GB RAM while the older one uses up less memory and I would rather use the extra RAM of newer hardware to run more recource intensive programs. I know that the usual excuse is "Well Windows XP is 10 years old, what do you expect!", however given that were other OSes such as Mac OS and Ubuntu that used much less resources when the OS was released, I hardly see what the advantage is. Newer versions of Mac OS, unfortunately, also uses a large amount of RAM which is a step backwards for that OS I think and it's why I'm still using Snow Leopard.

One could also like one OS over the other due to having a more intuitive GUI or being more user-friendly but those are secondary to what I think is the main function of an OS and user-friendlyness is a matter of perspective anyway.

I write portable software; my software has the same GUI whether it's running on Linux, Windows, or OSX. You can barely tell the difference other than the use of widget styles that are specific to the platform. Are you saying that people using my program on Linux are not really using Linux because it's also native to Windows? What if my platform abstraction layer is winelib instead of Qt? If your answer to the previous question was no, does it suddenly become yes because the API calls into my abstraction layer are Win32 API calls? What if I just use Wine wholesale instead of winelib? If your answer to the previous question was still no, is it now yes? At what point is the user no longer "really" using Linux?

My point is that the difference between a port and a compatibility layer like Wine is nonexistent. You could skin Wine with a different widget style and fix its brain dead file system model it wouldn't be Windows in the least. I believe quite a few "native" Linux programs use winelib. Yes, a VM is a different story but I'm not really talking about that.

Meanwhile, you also say you pick OSes based on hardware requirements/performance. In that case I would argue that even for the values you cherish in an OS, you are very much migrating if you switch from Windows to Linux and still run all your Windows programs in WINE. Your Windows programs will benefit from the performance of Linux.

auntblabby
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04 Jul 2012, 11:28 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

celerons should not be sold for anything needing more power than a paperweight. as for investing $100 there is nothing used available 'round where i live for that little bit of money. i had to scrimp and save for 2 years to be able to afford a reconditioned pentium. the used stuff was actually more expensive than the new stuff [on sale at discount] in the big box stores over in the next county.

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

What web page uses Java anymore? I don't even have Java enabled.

i am no expert in puters, i know just enough to do my audio restoration and little more. all i know is that webpages are laden with lots of things running in the background that my old celeron puter [<2gb total system ram] would just choke on, especially on wrong planet.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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04 Jul 2012, 12:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

What web page uses Java anymore? I don't even have Java enabled.

You mean JavaScript. The newest browsers are actually a lot faster running those scripts than, say, IE 6 or 7 in WinXP.

sgravn
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09 Jul 2012, 12:08 am

When the Linux community gets off its ass and fixes the preposterous keyboard layout restraint it imposed on X11 in a misguided act of optimization, I'll return to Linux.

Long ago, it was the case that Linux, like Windows and OSX still do, allowed one to configure as many different keyboard layouts as one needed - and beyond that allowed the user to configure their own keyboard shortcuts for switching between languages and layouts, which Windows and OSX infuriatingly will not. Well, that capability is now all but absent from Linux: you may now configure up to and no greater than four (4) layouts to cycle between. As a Dvorak user, I already lose one because nobody lets me get away with not configuring QWERTY. You have to jump through so many hoops to grind something out that's even close to proper functionality as to make, yes, Windows incredibly appealing to any multilingual person. (We're a huge sector of the populace, and we're predominantly drawn to Linux. I don't know why we get ignored so.)

All this because someone decided their boot was taking just a leeettle too long on their pet Deck Rainbow. Jesus Louise.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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09 Jul 2012, 1:58 pm

The Linux answer is, get off your ass and code a fix

I won't vouch for the realism of that answer though.

morslilleole
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15 Jul 2012, 3:43 pm

techn0teen wrote:

I feel the other way around. The only thing I miss about programming on Windows is Visual Studio. But this might only be because I am not very familiar with GDB yet. And also I tend to debug by using command line output more than a debugger.

I find that my code runs smoother on Linux and that things like timing with decent resolution ( < 1ms ) is easier on Linux. And on Linux you also have tools like valgrind to help you debug memory problems.

But I guess it's just a matter of preference. I really don't mind working on Windows, either.

Also on Linux you have tools like valgrind, which can be very helpful in detecting memory leaks.

RadicalDreamers
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21 Jul 2012, 7:27 pm

It has been my belief for quite some time that there is the right OS for the right job and individual. It really all depends. It’s very much equivalent to the 'right tool for the right job' as the saying goes. There will be those who hate Windows 7, XP, 9X, etc, those who hate MAC environments; those hate UNIX, those who hate Linux and all its wonderful flavors. Some like and appreciate the immense variety which different OS's will offer at different times for very specific tasks, and objectives which are unique to the individual user. I have had use for many different operating systems at different times depending on what I set out to accomplish. (This also included virtual environments) It really depends on what you intend to accomplish with them. I hate none, but do not love any of them either.

40djbrooks
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21 Jul 2012, 9:41 pm

The problem is that Linux is a totally different platform and everyone is trying to make it behave like Windows. If you want to use windows apps and games stick with windows. Linux users should be using native applications and games, yes it is mostly opensource software but it is done by people who enjoy doing it, as for those who make a living out of it.

Most people out there just want to turn on their computer and surf, emails etc, but the problem is now you can do that with smartphones and tablets. I have sort of moved on with accessing services on the go.

Come on everyone keep up now.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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21 Jul 2012, 9:46 pm

RadicalDreamers wrote:

I definitely prefer Linux as a server OS (most people do) and as a build machine (the filesystem in Windows is too slow, and forking is too slow). I struggle to think of another scenario/job where Linux is preferable.

MyFutureSelfnMe
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21 Jul 2012, 9:48 pm

40djbrooks wrote:

You're the second person who's said this and I still don't understand it. A lot of "native" Linux apps are built with winelib. The mere idea of a native Linux app strikes me as silly.

40djbrooks
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21 Jul 2012, 10:09 pm

Well yes true what you say but people expect windows apps to work on linux, if people want to make the switch then they need to make a clean break and ditch windows apps completely.

noname_ever
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22 Jul 2012, 12:41 am

40djbrooks wrote:

Well yes true what you say but people expect windows apps to work on linux, if people want to make the switch then they need to make a clean break and ditch windows apps completely.

Unfortunately, that means that the developers of linux apps have to up their game and make programs that don't suck. There is still a belief that you shouldn't criticize software that you get for free.

Keith
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22 Jul 2012, 1:36 am

Not a question but an opinion.

Not even an option for "All my games are Xbox ports and so only use DirectX instead of openGL"

Windows' success can be attributed with all early computers having Windows pre-installed. Many people would think installing a better one would make their computer not work so well, or a program they use is only on the one.

Then there is not knowing genuinely

40djbrooks
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22 Jul 2012, 10:37 am

noname_ever wrote:

40djbrooks wrote:

Well yes true what you say but people expect windows apps to work on linux, if people want to make the switch then they need to make a clean break and ditch windows apps completely.

yes i agree with you. i think this is why linux is struggling

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