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Jono
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12 Mar 2012, 6:24 am

I've got some information that I thought you guy's might be interested in.

Imagine, if you will, a giant radio telescope with a dish so big, it has a total of 1 square kilometer for it's collecting area. In other words the dish is as big as a small town. Such a telescope would be many times more sensitive and powerful than any previous radio telescope ever built, don't you think? Such a large radio telescope would of course be impossible to build. However, what one can do is build an equivalent telescope array of many interconnected smaller dishes with a total collecting area of 1 square kilometer. That's the whole idea of the SKA or square kilometer array.

The SKA project was initially envisioned by collaborating groups of astronomers. While the total collective area of the dishes are 1 km^2, they would actually spread over an area between 3000 km^2 and 5000 km^2 so that it can look at a much wider area of the sky at any given time (an area so wide, in fact, that the dishes have to be arranged in a spiral configuration so as to account for the Earth's rotation around it's own axis). The SKA would also be 10000 times more sensitive than any other previous radio telescope ever built. In fact it would be sensitive enough to pick the equivalent of a television signal origination from a planet a few hundred lightyears away - a SETI researcher's absolute dream but that is not it's main purpose. The main purpose of the SKA is to try and solve some of the main problems currently facing cosmology and astrophysics, including the nature of dark matter and dark energy, providing more elaborate tests of general relativity, and being able to see into the so-called "dark ages" of the universe (the time between the big bang and when the first stars started to form).

Of course the main problem for such a project was to decide where it's location would be. After all, the core of the thing would have to be in a location where there is almost complete radio silence since even a single cell phone near it would screw up any signal it gets from space. With regards to this location issue though, South Africa and Australia were the two countries shortlisted as possible being able to host the SKA from an initial list of four countries several years ago.

In the South African bid, the core of the array would put in the Karoo desert, with the dishes spread across nine sub-saharan african countries. The Australians on the other hand, are planning to put the core of the array in the Australian outback with the dishes spread between Australia and New Zealand. Now the reason I'm saying all this is that next month on 5 April, the board of directors are going to decide whether the SKA will be hosted in South Africa or Australia. There's been a leak that suggests that the SKA advisory committee recommended South Africa to the board on technical grounds but that doesn't necessarily mean that Australia won't get to host it:

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/australian-bid-falters-for-25b-telescope-20120309-1upsp.html

Both SKA teams have worked hard on their proposals though, each already having their own precursor telescopes as a technology demonstration (South Africa's MeerKAT telescope and Australia's ASKAP). So I can only hope that whoever win's the bid, both teams will cooperate in future. Here's the Wikipedia article on the SKA for more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Kilometre_Array



Declension
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12 Mar 2012, 6:41 am

Oy, I think you mean South Africa vs Australasia! :roll:

I'll not have any saffers stealing our science projects! Tell you what, we'll play you for it. Rugby union.



peterd
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12 Mar 2012, 7:58 am

And the bastards are going to build it in Africa. Too bad.



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12 Mar 2012, 10:47 am

peterd wrote:
And the bastards are going to build it in Africa. Too bad.


why?


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Jono
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13 Mar 2012, 8:48 am

Oodain wrote:
peterd wrote:
And the bastards are going to build it in Africa. Too bad.


why?


I guess that whenever Africa is mentioned, people think about the political stability of the region. Building the SKA in Africa though, won't diminish whatever science can be done with it.



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15 Mar 2012, 4:56 am

As long as it gets built, which may take a while.



Declension
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15 Mar 2012, 5:05 am

Jono wrote:
Building the SKA in Africa though, won't diminish whatever science can be done with it.


It's true. It would be cool for it to be built down here, but the important thing is that it gets built. Let's not let nationalism get in the way of a good discovery!

The neat thing about a project like this is that it seems almost certain that we will discover something amazing with it. At the very least, we might get some great detailed maps of the night sky as seen by a radio.



Jono
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16 Mar 2012, 8:11 am

I also hope the SKA can help us solve some of the biggest mysteries in cosmology, regardless of where it's built. It's not a given that it will be built in Africa. We'll have to wait until April to see what the final decision is, whether it's going to be in Africa or Australia/New Zealand.



16 Mar 2012, 4:06 pm

Jono wrote:
I've got some information that I thought you guy's might be interested in.

Imagine, if you will, a giant radio telescope with a dish so big, it has a total of 1 square kilometer for it's collecting area. In other words the dish is as big as a small town. Such a telescope would be many times more sensitive and powerful than any previous radio telescope ever built, don't you think? Such a large radio telescope would of course be impossible to build. However, what one can do is build an equivalent telescope array of many interconnected smaller dishes with a total collecting area of 1 square kilometer. That's the whole idea of the SKA or square kilometer array.



No it wouldn't be impossible to build, just very expensive and time consuming.



Jono
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16 Mar 2012, 7:55 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Jono wrote:
I've got some information that I thought you guy's might be interested in.

Imagine, if you will, a giant radio telescope with a dish so big, it has a total of 1 square kilometer for it's collecting area. In other words the dish is as big as a small town. Such a telescope would be many times more sensitive and powerful than any previous radio telescope ever built, don't you think? Such a large radio telescope would of course be impossible to build. However, what one can do is build an equivalent telescope array of many interconnected smaller dishes with a total collecting area of 1 square kilometer. That's the whole idea of the SKA or square kilometer array.



No it wouldn't be impossible to build, just very expensive and time consuming.


It would be physically impossible because of the shear weight of the dish. The dish would become most likely become mis-shapen and you wouldn't be able to get useful astronomy out of it.



16 Mar 2012, 9:19 pm

Jono wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Jono wrote:
I've got some information that I thought you guy's might be interested in.

Imagine, if you will, a giant radio telescope with a dish so big, it has a total of 1 square kilometer for it's collecting area. In other words the dish is as big as a small town. Such a telescope would be many times more sensitive and powerful than any previous radio telescope ever built, don't you think? Such a large radio telescope would of course be impossible to build. However, what one can do is build an equivalent telescope array of many interconnected smaller dishes with a total collecting area of 1 square kilometer. That's the whole idea of the SKA or square kilometer array.



No it wouldn't be impossible to build, just very expensive and time consuming.


It would be physically impossible because of the shear weight of the dish. The dish would become most likely become mis-shapen and you wouldn't be able to get useful astronomy out of it.




You're assuming the dish is free standing(as in mounted on a support). If the dish were built on the ground inside of a surface depression that had some kind of solid support(this could easily by created artificially) it's weight would be counterbalanced. The Arecibo radio telescope is built this way as is the newer, larger, FAST radio observatory in China.



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27 May 2012, 5:51 pm

I've got some news. The decision about who would host the SKA was delayed but on Friday, it was decided that it would be a 70/30 split between South Africa and Australia/New Zealand.So, both groups will be involved and it will be shared between the two sites:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18194984



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27 May 2012, 6:02 pm

I think that South Africa is a good place to put it. The country is reasonably stable, so those sorts of considerations need not be an issue. But I read an interview a year or two ago from their Minister of Science (or maybe it was Education--I forget). She was making the point that having that facility there would be good for South African science as a whole, and would help to inspire more kids there to pursue science. I think that South Africa needs those sorts of benefits more than Australia does.



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27 May 2012, 6:19 pm

I worry that the dishes could be damaged by people thieving the parts. Crime is a major issue in South Africa... it would be nice to have such an amazing machine there though, and a great boost to the continent's scientific prestige. Such would be good for their "scientific culture" which I think has a lot of potential

I say build both, personally ;) :lol:


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27 May 2012, 6:19 pm

Jono wrote:
I've got some news. The decision about who would host the SKA was delayed but on Friday, it was decided that it would be a 70/30 split between South Africa and Australia/New Zealand.So, both groups will be involved and it will be shared between the two sites:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18194984


Nice!!


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ruveyn
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28 May 2012, 7:45 am

Wouldn't a wide array of small telescopes work better. How does one steer a supergiant parabolic dish?

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