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18 Mar 2010, 12:49 am

Well, I would normally run it under Linux or OS X in any case. I use both of those more frequently, and it is simpler to get it working on a *nix system.

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ruveyn
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18 Mar 2010, 1:11 am

Oh no! Not that again!

MyFutureSelfnMe
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18 Mar 2010, 9:42 am

Orwell wrote:

Well, I would normally run it under Linux or OS X in any case. I use both of those more frequently, and it is simpler to get it working on a *nix system.

I don't think it's the general case.

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18 Mar 2010, 7:44 pm

Orwell wrote:

Curious, that does seem to get something. Is that a newer Xming than Bard had been linking to on his site? That may have been the problem, if anyone was trying to use an outdated X server. For my classmates, it refused to start, and gave a fatal error to X. I hadn't bothered as I had "aptitude install xppaut" to get the program. In any case, I followed your example and I got it running... sort of. Some stuff in the program does not behave as it's supposed to, and the interface is completely different from (and significantly worse than) it is running under Mac or Linux.

That is weird, what version did you actually download? winpp.zip should be a native Win32 port that doesn't need X at all. At least that's what the author said on this page. He also said that the port is incomplete, so you probably want to install an X server and use http://www.math.pitt.edu/~bard/bardware ... xppwin.zip instead.

I have just tried it on Cygwin with no problem. Pretty sure Xming should be fine too. I couldn't find a link to Xming on his page, but seriously, the current free version of Xming is already 3 years old, when did he last update his page.

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19 Mar 2010, 10:52 am

His page is for "XPP on Windows 95". Enough said.

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19 Mar 2010, 11:00 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Well, I would normally run it under Linux or OS X in any case. I use both of those more frequently, and it is simpler to get it working on a *nix system.

That's because "Bard" can't engineer software to save his life. He seems to have one talent: math.

If running something on an operating system requires "talent" or "software engineering", that's a sign of a bad operating system.

Last edited by LordoftheMonkeys on 19 Mar 2010, 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Mar 2010, 11:04 am

By the way, why is it that M$ lovers and .NET programmers love wearing business suits so much? Is it an homage to Micro$oft's cold corporate culture or something?

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19 Mar 2010, 11:09 am

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Well, I would normally run it under Linux or OS X in any case. I use both of those more frequently, and it is simpler to get it working on a *nix system.

That's because "Bard" can't engineer software to save his life. He seems to have one talent: math.

If running something on an operating system requires "talent" or "software engineering", that's a sign of a bad operating system.

Who said Bard was running anything? He's programming it. Incidentally he programmed it directly for the X Window API, which is widely considered specific to UNIX systems (although as discussed there are compatibility layers you can install on others). He probably put more effort into it and got a far worse result than he would get using Qt or any other cross platform GUI toolkit.

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19 Mar 2010, 11:15 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

Oh, I thought "Bard" was the person who was trying to run the software on Windows. But anyway, you (M$ lovers) are the ones who keep saying that Unix sucks because no one writes software for it. If software is incompatible with the operating system, whose fault is it? Make up your mind.

And you still didn't answer my question about the business suits.

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19 Mar 2010, 11:51 am

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

I think everyone should write portable code as much as possible. It's the software's fault (e.g. Microsoft in the case of Office) that it's not compatible with Linux. However none of that changes the fact that Office doesn't run on Linux.

I don't love Microsoft or anyone. Who cares about business suits.

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19 Mar 2010, 4:02 pm

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

So what if it's specific to X? X is on all UNIX systems, and basically every OS other than Windows is UNIX.

As for why it's not in Qt or something else, I'm not sure. The program has a pretty long and twisted history, but allegedly it was written in Xlib for the purpose of portability.

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19 Mar 2010, 4:05 pm

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

Uh huh. You haven't answered LotM's allegation though. You criticized Linux in this thread for not being able to run MS Office, and then when I brought up a program that doesn't run properly or easily on Windows, you blame the software author. I see a double standard. To paraphrase you, it is Bard's fault that XPP is written in Xlib and isn't compatible with Windows. But none of that changes the fact that it doesn't run on Windows.

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19 Mar 2010, 5:08 pm

Orwell wrote:

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:

I wasn't criticizing Linux. It's not Linux's fault Office doesn't run on Linux. But Office still doesn't run on Linux, which is one of the reasons I don't use Linux. That doesn't mean I'm criticizing Linux on that particular point, and I can't blame you for wanting to run XPP on Ubuntu although it seems the issue with different versions having different interfaces has been cleared up.

In both cases, I fully blame the software authors. I haven't been shy with my opinion though that Bard is an egregiously poor software author (and website designer). I wouldn't go to that extent with Microsoft as a company, and I think not releasing Office for Linux was more of a practical decision for them, whereas in Bard's case it was a simple lack of talent. I'm not biased toward Microsoft and in fact if I were in charge of antitrust in the United States I would probably break up their OS and applications divisions into separate companies. Whether that would result in a Linux version of Office is open to debate.

It is Bard's fault XPP is written directly on top of xlib, and I think that was a poor design decision.

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19 Mar 2010, 9:27 pm

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:

If running something on an operating system requires "talent" or "software engineering", that's a sign of a bad operating system.

Or a sign of bad programming of that particular software.

In this case however, I'd say poor documentation plus careless user. If he had read the instructions, he'd know he has a choice of winpp.zip with crippled UI and reduced functions, or xppwin.zip with an additional step of installing X.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the official Xming or Cygwin or any other X server? If the Xming on Bard's page is outdated, blame him for his laziness and yourself for mis-trusting him.

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:

By the way, why is it that M$ lovers and .NET programmers love wearing business suits so much? Is it an homage to Micro$oft's cold corporate culture or something?

Don't you find it ironic that you just start a thread ranting about linux haters' stereotyped attack and yet you are attacking their appearance? btw, M$ doesn't have dress code for programmers, or even fixed working hours. If you have only seen M$ people in suits, then you've only seen their marketing staffs.

Orwell wrote:

You criticized Linux in this thread for not being able to run MS Office, and then when I brought up a program that doesn't run properly or easily on Windows, you blame the software author. I see a double standard. To paraphrase you, it is Bard's fault that XPP is written in Xlib and isn't compatible with Windows. But none of that changes the fact that it doesn't run on Windows.

Just want to say beforehand that I'm not taking side, but your argument is faulted. M$ haven't released a linux version of Office, Bard oth does maintain 2 versions of xpp for windows. If either version failed to run as intended, it's obviously his fault. Besides, both versions work fine under Windows. I hope it doesn't sound too harsh, you are the one who failed to get it working.

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19 Mar 2010, 9:44 pm

i will say this about using a mac, it sure makes me appreciate my pc more

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19 Mar 2010, 11:24 pm

CloudWalker wrote:

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:

By the way, why is it that M$ lovers and .NET programmers love wearing business suits so much? Is it an homage to Micro$oft's cold corporate culture or something?

Okay, here's the thing... When I was talking about Linux haters, I was criticizing two behaviors: 1. Attacking the users of a product and using that as an argument, as if it proves that the software is bad, and 2. Dismissing anything not related to beer/drugs/sex/sports/partying as "uncool". I am not doing either of these things. I asked the question about the business suits as an aside, because I thought it was sort of funny, not because I thought it proved my point, or because I think there's anything "wrong" with wearing a business suit, which I don't. Do me a favor and read between the lines a little more. I hate explaining these things to people who don't have a clue.

Last edited by LordoftheMonkeys on 20 Mar 2010, 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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