System upgrade

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When tessellation and/or hardware physics become commonplace, setup rate might then become important. Right now most games are pixel shader limited, not geometry, textures or lighting.

An AMD build from newegg:

• CPU: $295.99 AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX
• VIDEO1: $249.99 EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
• MEMORY: $99.99 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
• MOTHERBOARD: $139.99 ASUS M4N98TD EVO AM3 NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
• HDD: $89.99 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
• CASE: $39.99 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan
• CD: $23.99 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
• POWER SUPPLY: $76.99 KINGWIN ABT-730MM 730W ATX 12V Ver.2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply
• WIFI: $36.85 Linksys WMP54G 32bit PCI2.2 Wireless-G Adapter
• OS: $139.99 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders

Subtotal: $1,193.76
Tax: $98.49
Shipping: $13.85
Grand Total: $1,306.10

And an Intel build, also from newegg:

• CPU: $289.99 Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930
• VIDEO1: $249.99 EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
• MEMORY: $99.99 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
• MOTHERBOARD: $239.99 ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
• HDD: $89.99 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
• CASE: $39.99 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan
• CD: $23.99 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
• POWER SUPPLY: $76.99 KINGWIN ABT-730MM 730W ATX 12V Ver.2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply
• WIFI: $36.85 Linksys WMP54G 32bit PCI2.2 Wireless-G Adapter
• OS: $139.99 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders

Subtotal: $1,287.76
Tax: $106.24
Shipping: $13.85
Grand Total: $1,407.85

It's going to be a gaming and application machine. In other words the latest games plus Photoshop, Flash, Firefox and so forth.

Could someone give me advice on which is better?
Is there any way to reduce cost without sacrificing performance?
Is there anything else you could advise me on?

The AMD build is easily better for the price but I still don't understand why you feel like you need 4-6 cores. Triple cores are with some luck unlockable and even if they aren't they are dirt cheap, easily overclock-able and at least in all the gaming tests I've seen show very little improvement in frame rates going from a fast triple to a fast quad and diminishing returns continues as you move up from there at least currently. Even if future games do take real advantage of 6 cores you likely are going to have to have to upgrade to a new motherboard and graphics cards to get playable framerates at max settings at higher resolutions. Being on the bleeding edge is not all it's cracked up to be, believe me I bought an XP 3200+ when they were the best CPU around and Athlon 64s were on the way. I regretted it big time. Spent $2XX on a processor that wasn't a whole hell of a lot faster than the XP 2500+ it replaced and I couldn't overclock it because my mobo was limited to 400FSB. Same s**t with my 6800GT, I knew it was the best single card out there and I shelled out $310 on it. A year or two later I bought a 7950GT that was TWICE as fast for $200 or so. I could have probably lived with a 6600GT until I got into Unreal Tournament 3, I don't regret buying the 7950GT surprisingly, the 8 and 9 series pissed everyone I know off cause every time someone would buy one they'd come out with a new better or more cost effective card.

those cpus and vid card are wayyy way too pricey, imo.
Do you really need to get them? ...Unless you plan to play all day... (and tbh I don't game) I work all day using Adobe programs and honestly they don't need all that extra power, RAM is a must and is always welcome so I'd add more.
You can always check which cpu cores does the mobo support, and later when it gets cheaper do an upgrade.

Disclaimer: Everyone at my job and home (including my gf) uses Mac®, so be free throw my opinion in the trash bin...

Well with that mindset I might as well just stay with my Dell XPS m1710, 2GB memory, nVidia 7950 GTX, 80 GB HDD, etc... etc... When I bought it Bioshock and Mass Effect was just coming out. Both games ran VERY GOOD. This laptop played Mass Effect 2 very well too; but I think it's because BioWare reused the ME1 engine. Today it plays most games decently at 1680 x 1024 (native is 1920 x 1200) with medium settings. Graphic intensive games like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 completely lag (and no it's not related to network lag). On the other hand WOW looks and runs great albeit without the new water effects and real time shadows.

I want 4 cores or more because a lot of the nextgen gaming engines are going to take full advantage of true multi-core and multi-threading support. These are the engines that are going to power the next generation of PC games. For example check out the features list for CryEngine 3 on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryEngine_3. This is going to power Crysis 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 and I suspect many others. In lock step companies like Epic, id, Valve and Bethesda, who create engines, are going to have to include those features in their engines if they want to attract buyers and stay current. After Crysis 2 is out you'll see a huge shift toward true quad core gaming. I know it's a gamble but I've been a PC gamer for all my life and if there's one thing I know about the industry is that when one company does something... everyone else follows. All I want to do is get myself ready for when Crysis 2 DOES hit the market.

The reason I want that Intel motherboard is it supports 3-Way SLI and Quad-GPU support. It allows flexible Multi-GPU solutions. I think that means I can use different video cards to create up to 3 SLI connections. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Again I choose it because of CryEngine 3 and what's going to happen. I'm just trying to future proof this machine so that I can spend a couple hundred upgrading or adding in a year instead of dropping another $1,500 in three.

I think your points about buying on the cutting edge are very valid, and I support them, but I've not built a computer in over ten years. It's not a matter of selection, it's a matter of knowledge; or lack there of. I really don't know what is what in the technology world. You throw all these words at me as if I'm suppose to know what you're talking about. I don't. I was hoping someone could help me "fix" my list with what they feel is a better choice, then tell me why they think their list provides a better solution. But my main goal has always been to build a system that I can upgrade over time and has room to grow.

Crytek has promised that the system requirements for Crysis 2 will be LOWER than for the original Crysis. That likely applies to other CryEngine 3 titles. Many game design studios (including Crytek) are doing simultanious development for the XBox 360, and their games are mostly limited to the capabilities of that platform.

Why is everyone shooting down my points? Xbox 360 is old technology. PC is where it's at for nextgen. I think Crytek will lower the requirements for Crysis 2 for minimum requirements, but they'll offer the full-blown version too. I think Crytek will make their engine powerful enough to include profiles. A PC profile with the bells and whistles, and Xbox 360 and PS3 profiles with settings optimized for them. The developer can concentrate on making fun games and not worry about cross-platform settings. The engines job will be to "create the PC build" or "create the Xbox 360 build" when developers ask for it.

Not everyone, at least not me. If I were to buy a new PC, I will probably get an i7-930 too. I won't consider 6-cores yet, as AMD's 6-cores Phenom is slower than higher speed i7's and the premium of Intel's 6-core is way too high. I will however wait for AMD's 6000 series GPU as it's only 3 months away.

I think it's unfortunate that consoles are holding back the developments of PC games, most of the extra PC power are used for nothing more than minor eye candy. But the XBox 720 or Playstation 4 should be out in a little over a year's time. The situation will probably change before that.

I know the XBox 360 is old technology. Cloudwalker explained better the point I was trying to make about it. You're right though kxmode, I've been getting sidetracked here... Basically what I've been trying to say is you get diminishing returns the more money you spend over $1k or so. That's about the price point for a system that should run every game at max (i.e. Core i5 750 + single GTX 460). If you don't mind spending another $100 or so, the i7 930 is also a fine processor, you just aren't likely to notice much difference from the i5. And until someone comes along and makes a game that drastically raises requirement like Crysis did, the i7 960 is just throwing money away for nothing. Crytek has stated that Crysis 2 will not be that game, and I don't think such a game will be made until Microsoft announces a new console, since it would be difficult and costly to scale down for the 360. I'm not trying to argue with you kxmode - just explaining why I feel a $1000-$1200 system is just as good as a $2000 one for gaming purposes.

Thank you Steve for that insightful response.

I think you should get the Dell XPS 730x.

The Dell XPS is a line of high-end gaming computers sold by Dell. XPS is an acronym for Xtreme Performance System. The first XPS computer dates back to 1993. By around 2003-2004, the first XPS laptop was released, featuring desktop Pentium 4 processors. As of 2009, almost all Dell computers under the XPS line are now branded as Studio XPS, with the XPS One being the only remaining computer sold under the XPS brand.



-Core processor: 64 bit Intel Core 17 Extreme i7-965

---Clock rate: From 3.73 GHz to about 6 GHz (overclocked).

---Cache: 8MB, L2 Cache

-Graphics processor: Duel Geforce GTS 240 cards.

---Core clock: 675 MHz

---Shader clock: 1.62 GHz

---Memory clock: 1.1 GHz (2.2 GHz data rate)

---Memory interface: 256 bit

---Total graphics memory: 3865 MB

---Video memory: 1 GB (1024 MB)

---Shared system memory: 2811 MB

---Bus: PCI Express x16 Gen2

-Motherboard: Intel X58

-Hard drive: Duel Western Digital Velociraptor

---RPM: 10,000

---Memory: 300 GB each

-Optical drive: Blu-ray Disc Combo drive, Double Layer Write

-Cooling: H2C 2-stage Hybrid Cooled CPU and Chipset

-Ethernet: Dual Gigabit Ethernet cards

-Audio: Integrated Realtek 7.1 Channel Hi-Definition Audio Controller

-Physical dimensions:

---Width: 21.9 cm (8.6 inches) without stand; 35.6 cm
(14.0 inches) with stand

---Height: 55.5 cm (21.9 inches) without stand; 57.2 cm
(22.5 inches) with stand

---Depth: 59.4 cm (23.4 inches)

---Weight: 21.7 kg (47.8 lb) typical configuration, 25.6 kg (56.4 lb) maximum configuration

-RAM: Tri-channel DDR3

---Size: 6 GB (3 x 2 GB DIMM)

---Clock rate: 1.066 GHz

-Power Supply: 1 kW

-External ports:

---8 x USB 2.0 ports (2 front, 4 rear)

---2 x 1394a Firewire port (1 front, 1 rear)

---2 x RJ45 Ethernet (10/100/1000) port

---1 x eSATA

---1 x PS/2 Mouse Port

---1 x PS/2 Keyboard Port

---1 x 19-in-1 card reader (front media-bay)

---1 x 1/8″ headphone port (front)

---1 x 1/8″ stereo line-in (microphone) port

---1 x S/PDIF Optical

---1 x S/PDIF Coaxial

---6 x 1/8″ surround sound outputs

Dell has discontinued the XPS 730x in its US online store and is currently in the process of selling remaining stock.

This is from my blog, so it has very few external links. If you want to see this post with all the links, click here.

Basically, the Dell XPS 730x is a 64 bit computer with an octo-core processor and 6 GB of RAM. It's clocked at about 6 GHz max.