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nostromo
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12 Jan 2012, 5:02 am

Of course I understand the difference, it was an analogy of how something is passed along, not meant to be taken literally.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 9:45 am

nostromo wrote:
Of course I understand the difference, it was an analogy of how something is passed along, not meant to be taken literally.


A bad analogy is worse than no analogy at all. Why? Because (1) it misleads and (2) obscures what is really happening.

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Mdyar
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12 Jan 2012, 10:26 am

nostromo wrote:
To make sense of the battery question, consider that the batteries have an internal resistance that needs to be figured in to the equations, this is why the AAA 12v cannot deliver the current of the car battery, they have a much higher internal resistance, measure the voltage drop across a car battery when you are cranking the engine and if you know the current drawn there is your car battery figure.

Now hook your AAA array up to the battery terminals and try and start the car, measure the voltage at the terminals, I'm guessing but it will probably be 0.5v or something..again if you know the current being delivered (you could safely insert a multimeter) you can establish the internal resistance of the AAA array cells, which to complicate things may even change when current is drawn, still ohms law will not lie.


Looking at my 'AA' Nickle Metal Hydride cells, they show 1600 Mah or 1.6 amps per hour.

Say, if the resistance was the same (all things being equal), it would take 5000 AA batteries to make 1000 amps/Hr, as in my truck battery.

625 batteries makes a 1000 amps at 1.25 volts, so you'd need 10 columns( batteries) of 625 batteries in series, to generate 12.5 volts.

I wonder: How big is a block of 5000 AA batteries?



GoonSquad
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12 Jan 2012, 1:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
nostromo wrote:
Of course I understand the difference, it was an analogy of how something is passed along, not meant to be taken literally.


A bad analogy is worse than no analogy at all. Why? Because (1) it misleads and (2) obscures what is really happening.

ruveyn


Aw, lighten up man! The garden hose analogy is taught to beginners who are already struggling to understand many concepts at once...

Let them master resistors in series and parallel before you require them to grasp at fields!

And at a practical level the analogy is useful. Big current does require big wire.


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Sunshine7
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12 Jan 2012, 4:02 pm

Quote:
A bad analogy is worse than no analogy at all. Why? Because (1) it misleads and (2) obscures what is really happening.


While your statement holds true at higher levels, I think bad analogies do help in the beginning. Newtonian physics is one hell of a bad analogy for how M-theory really works.



ruveyn
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12 Jan 2012, 6:32 pm

Sunshine7 wrote:
Quote:
A bad analogy is worse than no analogy at all. Why? Because (1) it misleads and (2) obscures what is really happening.


While your statement holds true at higher levels, I think bad analogies do help in the beginning. Newtonian physics is one hell of a bad analogy for how M-theory really works.


Perhaps but it does not address the way electromagnetic energy and momentum operate. Newton's approach does not work for electrodynamics. To do electrodynamics at the macroscopic level you need fields. Newton did not propose a field theory although one could be constructed to accomidate his law of Gravitation.

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johansen
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12 Jan 2012, 8:28 pm

I think I exhausted the water pipe analogy when I was 7. it is a waste of time, and a stumbling block to some.

but moving on, i think in general the methods most everyone uses to teach electromagnetism is just one massive fail.
There's no reason people should spend a few years learning basic concepts before discovering that every inch of wire in free space is 10-20 nanohenries.