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Kurgan
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27 Oct 2012, 5:33 pm

blackelk wrote:
Wait a second, human immorality is impossible? How do you figure that? You're thinking way too small here.


Telomeres. Our cells can only divide so many times. We also need them to divide at a reasonable rate, which is why cryogenic facilities are merely scam agencies.



blackelk
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27 Oct 2012, 5:40 pm

Kurgan wrote:
blackelk wrote:
Wait a second, human immorality is impossible? How do you figure that? You're thinking way too small here.


Telomeres. Our cells can only divide so many times. We also need them to divide at a reasonable rate, which is why cryogenic facilities are merely scam agencies.


And why couldn't genetic engineering change this?

Quote:
Asexual planarian worms demonstrate the potential to maintain telomere length during regeneration," says Dr Aziz Aboobaker from the University's School of Biology. "Our data satisfy one of the predictions about what it would take for an animal to be potentially immortal and that it is possible for this scenario to evolve. The next goals for us are to understand the mechanisms in more detail and to understand more about how you evolve an immortal animal."


Quote:
Previous work, leading to the award of the 2009 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine, had shown that telomeres could be maintained by the activity of an enzyme called telomerase


You seem to be of the opinion that anything beyond our current understanding or technology is impossible.


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Tollorin
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27 Oct 2012, 6:15 pm

There is a lot of ressources in the solar system and a lot to learn from it anyway. Enough so we could live there a very long time. Who know? Maybe one day we gonna built interstellar ships with conversion drives. http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46411e9d02b29


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Oodain
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27 Oct 2012, 6:28 pm

Kurgan wrote:
blackelk wrote:
Wait a second, human immorality is impossible? How do you figure that? You're thinking way too small here.


Telomeres. Our cells can only divide so many times. We also need them to divide at a reasonable rate, which is why cryogenic facilities are merely scam agencies.


we have plenty of alternatives that circumvent that, even today mammal brains are being uploaded and can show normal function after digitizing, at the moment we are at rats and mice,
5 years ago a worm, the team is scheduled to begin primate experiments in 2015.

did you know that even causality has been voided experimentally?
the past has been shown under strict circumstances to be directly affected by a future choice.

then comes the fact that the energy required for the alcubierre drive was recalcualted after changing the field geometry to a torus, it reduced the nergy required form the mass equivelant of jupiter to around 1500 tons, so where it previously would have been unfeasible even if we solved the negative energy issue to where it is at least feasible, mind you 1500 tons is still a humoungous amount of energy.

none of this is certain, but their very existence compared to how much we dont understand should give anyone deeming something impossible at least a slight pause.


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ruveyn
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27 Oct 2012, 10:08 pm

Tollorin wrote:
There is a lot of ressources in the solar system and a lot to learn from it anyway. Enough so we could live there a very long time. Who know? Maybe one day we gonna built interstellar ships with conversion drives. http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46411e9d02b29


Yoo hoo! There is not an iota of evidence that magnetic monopoles exist. Perhaps they existed at the time of the Big Bang but there is no evidence they exist now, here or anywhere else.

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Tollorin
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27 Oct 2012, 10:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
There is a lot of ressources in the solar system and a lot to learn from it anyway. Enough so we could live there a very long time. Who know? Maybe one day we gonna built interstellar ships with conversion drives. http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46411e9d02b29


Yoo hoo! There is not an iota of evidence that magnetic monopoles exist. Perhaps they existed at the time of the Big Bang but there is no evidence they exist now, here or anywhere else.

ruveyn

I know, but some physic theories predict they're existence. We got a long time to figure something out for interstellar travels anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole#Grand_unified_theories_2

Wikipedia wrote:
Grand unified theories

In more recent years, a new class of theories has also suggested the existence of magnetic monopoles.

During the early 1970s, the successes of quantum field theory and gauge theory in the development of electroweak theory and the mathematics of the strong nuclear force led many theorists to move on to attempt to combine them in a single theory known as a Grand Unified Theory (GUT). Several GUTs were proposed, most of which had the curious[according to whom?] feature of implying the presence of a real magnetic monopole particle. More accurately, GUTs predicted a range of particles known as dyons, of which the most basic state was a monopole. The charge on magnetic monopoles predicted by GUTs is either 1 or 2 gD, depending on the theory.

The majority of particles appearing in any quantum field theory are unstable, and they decay into other particles in a variety of reactions that must satisfy various conservation laws. Stable particles are stable because there are no lighter particles into which they can decay and still satisfy the conservation laws. For instance, the electron has a lepton number of one and an electric charge of one, and there are no lighter particles that conserve these values. On the other hand, the muon, essentially a heavy electron, can decay into the electron plus two quanta of energy, and hence it is not stable.

The dyons in these GUTs are also stable, but for an entirely different reason. The dyons are expected to exist as a side effect of the "freezing out" of the conditions of the early universe, or a symmetry breaking. In this scenario, the dyons arise due to the configuration of the vacuum in a particular area of the universe, according to the original Dirac theory. They remain stable not because of a conservation condition, but because there is no simpler topological state into which they can decay.

The length scale over which this special vacuum configuration exists is called the correlation length of the system. A correlation length cannot be larger than causality would allow, therefore the correlation length for making magnetic monopoles must be at least as big as the horizon size determined by the metric of the expanding universe. According to that logic, there should be at least one magnetic monopole per horizon volume as it was when the symmetry breaking took place. Other arguments based on the critical density of the universe indicate that monopoles should be fairly common; the apparent problem of the observed scarcity of monopoles is resolved by cosmic inflation in the early universe, which greatly reduces the expected abundance of magnetic monopoles. For these reasons, monopoles became a major interest in the 1970s and 80s, along with the other "approachable" predictions of GUTs such as proton decay.

Many of the other particles predicted by these GUTs were beyond the abilities of current experiments to detect. For instance, a wide class of particles known as the X and Y bosons are predicted to mediate the coupling of the electroweak and strong forces, but these particles are extremely heavy and well beyond the capabilities of any reasonable particle accelerator to create.


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28 Oct 2012, 7:51 am

It's no good having theories that predict the existence of things. What we need are theories that can be tested, so that we can then confirm the existence of things.



ruveyn
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28 Oct 2012, 9:11 am

Tollorin wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
There is a lot of ressources in the solar system and a lot to learn from it anyway. Enough so we could live there a very long time. Who know? Maybe one day we gonna built interstellar ships with conversion drives. http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46411e9d02b29


Yoo hoo! There is not an iota of evidence that magnetic monopoles exist. Perhaps they existed at the time of the Big Bang but there is no evidence they exist now, here or anywhere else.

ruveyn

I know, but some physic theories predict they're existence. We got a long time to figure something out for interstellar travels anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole#Grand_unified_theories_2

Wikipedia wrote:
Grand unified theories

In more recent years, a new class of theories has also suggested the existence of magnetic monopoles.



The magnetic monopole. Believed when seen. All predictions are hot air and speculation until corroborated by observation or experiment. That is what makes science different from religion and philosophy.

ruveyn



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28 Oct 2012, 5:08 pm

Kurgan wrote:
The equations used to explain them are human constructions (i.e. approximations), but ultimately, everything is governed by physical laws that can be represented mathematically. What precisely makes the door still open?



The way I understand it, the reason it's considered effectively impossible to travel at the speed of light is because the equations would involve dividing by zero. That isn't an absolute and permanent lock down on the concept.

That's not even getting in to some of the crazier ideas out there, like a controlled wormhole or other methods of "bending" space and time.

Bear in mind this is also based on our *current* understanding of physics. There's still a hell of a lot that we can only guess at.


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