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holymackerel
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14 Nov 2020, 6:31 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
But the atoms are not exactly acting like a wave because when he fired them one at a time, they were not sticking behind the first shield like the sand like material was. They were only doing that when fired lots at a time. Therefore they gave both a wave and a matter type of result.


We know that atoms act like waves although we don't know why. Also, they do it even more unexplainedly when sent through one at a time. The big question is why do they only act like waves when they are not being observed. Does human consciousness somehow have a physical affect on them, or is it something more explicable (also seemingly just as unlikely) like the meausring device disrupts the waves.



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14 Nov 2020, 7:36 am

holymackerel wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
But the atoms are not exactly acting like a wave because when he fired them one at a time, they were not sticking behind the first shield like the sand like material was. They were only doing that when fired lots at a time. Therefore they gave both a wave and a matter type of result.


We know that atoms act like waves although we don't know why. Also, they do it even more unexplainedly when sent through one at a time. The big question is why do they only act like waves when they are not being observed. Does human consciousness somehow have a physical affect on them, or is it something more explicable (also seemingly just as unlikely) like the meausring device disrupts the waves.


If it is not the measuring device that causes the effect, it points to a creative force that controls matter which puts a whole new perpective when it comes to science and the acceptance of the concept that this earth was formed by a creative force or being, in which many of us know as God.
It is a mystery which I can only fathom these two possible answers as an explanation. It is interesting!

Oh. You mentioned human conciousness having a bearing on matter. That too is interesting!


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14 Nov 2020, 12:59 pm

holymackerel wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
But the atoms are not exactly acting like a wave because when he fired them one at a time, they were not sticking behind the first shield like the sand like material was. They were only doing that when fired lots at a time. Therefore they gave both a wave and a matter type of result.


We know that atoms act like waves although we don't know why. Also, they do it even more unexplainedly when sent through one at a time. The big question is why do they only act like waves when they are not being observed. Does human consciousness somehow have a physical affect on them, or is it something more explicable (also seemingly just as unlikely) like the meausring device disrupts the waves.


Actually, I do understand why matter (and anti-matter) particles act like what many call “waves”. To be closer to reality, those “waves” are really coils seen sideways. Light energy is really 3-D coils of vectors, not 2-D waves as described in textbooks. We do not live in a purely 2-D universe, so why would light?

To be able to understand why particles act the way that they do, one must first understand what makes them. Light energy (i.e. electromagnetic energy) is bent upon itself to form particles. Since particles are made from light energy, it is natural that they would retain some of the properties of light energy. It is the bending (and linking) of these light vectors that give rise to properties of particles. I now know the reason why neutrinos rarely interact with other particles and it has everything to do with how they are built.

Matter particles can be converted into the light energy that they are made from via annihilation with an equivalent particle of anti-matter. This is Albert Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity equation E = mc^2 in its purest form. The opposite particles “break” their substructure to go back to the coiled light vectors that they were formed from. I learned this while in a nuclear physics class years ago, whereby the professor could only explain what happens, but not why it happens.

Your physics professor will likely disagree from my points of view because he/she is trained to follow what is written in the physics textbooks. However, I see a great lack of knowledge that has been covered over by those books. We will not advance in science if we only accept what was written in books to be the end of the story. The universe just does not work that way.



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14 Nov 2020, 1:16 pm

Schroedinger, get over here and pick up your damn cat. That litter box is changing my perception of reality into one that smells really bad.


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14 Nov 2020, 1:25 pm

holymackerel wrote:
You are right. It is pretty fascinating that in a millennias time they will look back on us and see what we understand now, as how we see the dark ages.


Well...my point was that (a) originally it was considered a radical heresy to suggest that man is NOT the center of creation. Then gradually it flipped -so that for the last couple centuries (B) it was considered heresy to suggest that man IS the center of the universe ( because now we know that that CANT be so), which is why there in now resistance to this new notion that we live in a "simulation"- which would imply that we ARE the center of creation after all ...or.... the center of a simulation of creation, or...of ..something!



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14 Nov 2020, 2:35 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
holymackerel wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
But the atoms are not exactly acting like a wave because when he fired them one at a time, they were not sticking behind the first shield like the sand like material was. They were only doing that when fired lots at a time. Therefore they gave both a wave and a matter type of result.


We know that atoms act like waves although we don't know why. Also, they do it even more unexplainedly when sent through one at a time. The big question is why do they only act like waves when they are not being observed. Does human consciousness somehow have a physical affect on them, or is it something more explicable (also seemingly just as unlikely) like the meausring device disrupts the waves.


Actually, I do understand why matter (and anti-matter) particles act like what many call “waves”. To be closer to reality, those “waves” are really coils seen sideways. Light energy is really 3-D coils of vectors, not 2-D waves as described in textbooks. We do not live in a purely 2-D universe, so why would light?

To be able to understand why particles act the way that they do, one must first understand what makes them. Light energy (i.e. electromagnetic energy) is bent upon itself to form particles. Since particles are made from light energy, it is natural that they would retain some of the properties of light energy. It is the bending (and linking) of these light vectors that give rise to properties of particles. I now know the reason why neutrinos rarely interact with other particles and it has everything to do with how they are built.

Matter particles can be converted into the light energy that they are made from via annihilation with an equivalent particle of anti-matter. This is Albert Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity equation E = mc^2 in its purest form. The opposite particles “break” their substructure to go back to the coiled light vectors that they were formed from. I learned this while in a nuclear physics class years ago, whereby the professor could only explain what happens, but not why it happens.

Your physics professor will likely disagree from my points of view because he/she is trained to follow what is written in the physics textbooks. However, I see a great lack of knowledge that has been covered over by those books. We will not advance in science if we only accept what was written in books to be the end of the story. The universe just does not work that way.


Is interesting. Coils...

Oh, now that is something I hate... People ONLY accepting what is taught in a text book or otherwize, and not able to look outside of what they have been taught. I am not saying that I understand this concept we are talking about (I am trying!) but I know that what that teacher was teaching and saying what the mystery was... Well... I thought "Surely he isn't that dumb not to come up with possible theories?" Or was he saying that to get his students to think for themselves so they can think outside of the box? (It is ok to teach "We don't know" and let others suggest things. That is a good idea, but to teach it in a way that it is assumed that no one knows is assuming that no one knows because he does not know and the ones who taught him do not know).

Sometimes the answers to one question in a certain subject are taught and known about in a different subject where the main subject does not know? It requires an "Overview" type of thinking rather then a specialist thinking in which the specialist subject happens to be and attract the type of people who study it as sometimes the answers are right in front of your nose but you have to step back a bit to focus on them.


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14 Nov 2020, 11:08 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
holymackerel wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
But the atoms are not exactly acting like a wave because when he fired them one at a time, they were not sticking behind the first shield like the sand like material was. They were only doing that when fired lots at a time. Therefore they gave both a wave and a matter type of result.


We know that atoms act like waves although we don't know why. Also, they do it even more unexplainedly when sent through one at a time. The big question is why do they only act like waves when they are not being observed. Does human consciousness somehow have a physical affect on them, or is it something more explicable (also seemingly just as unlikely) like the meausring device disrupts the waves.


Actually, I do understand why matter (and anti-matter) particles act like what many call “waves”. To be closer to reality, those “waves” are really coils seen sideways. Light energy is really 3-D coils of vectors, not 2-D waves as described in textbooks. We do not live in a purely 2-D universe, so why would light?

To be able to understand why particles act the way that they do, one must first understand what makes them. Light energy (i.e. electromagnetic energy) is bent upon itself to form particles. Since particles are made from light energy, it is natural that they would retain some of the properties of light energy. It is the bending (and linking) of these light vectors that give rise to properties of particles. I now know the reason why neutrinos rarely interact with other particles and it has everything to do with how they are built.

Matter particles can be converted into the light energy that they are made from via annihilation with an equivalent particle of anti-matter. This is Albert Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity equation E = mc^2 in its purest form. The opposite particles “break” their substructure to go back to the coiled light vectors that they were formed from. I learned this while in a nuclear physics class years ago, whereby the professor could only explain what happens, but not why it happens.

Your physics professor will likely disagree from my points of view because he/she is trained to follow what is written in the physics textbooks. However, I see a great lack of knowledge that has been covered over by those books. We will not advance in science if we only accept what was written in books to be the end of the story. The universe just does not work that way.


Is interesting. Coils...

Oh, now that is something I hate... People ONLY accepting what is taught in a text book or otherwize, and not able to look outside of what they have been taught. I am not saying that I understand this concept we are talking about (I am trying!) but I know that what that teacher was teaching and saying what the mystery was... Well... I thought "Surely he isn't that dumb not to come up with possible theories?" Or was he saying that to get his students to think for themselves so they can think outside of the box? (It is ok to teach "We don't know" and let others suggest things. That is a good idea, but to teach it in a way that it is assumed that no one knows is assuming that no one knows because he does not know and the ones who taught him do not know).

Sometimes the answers to one question in a certain subject are taught and known about in a different subject where the main subject does not know? It requires an "Overview" type of thinking rather then a specialist thinking in which the specialist subject happens to be and attract the type of people who study it as sometimes the answers are right in front of your nose but you have to step back a bit to focus on them.


It has been something that I have constantly ran into when dealing with certain physical scientists. They only can think of things that exist in their mental box that they were trained with. They have very little original thoughts, but lots of textbook ones. If a person pushes the limits of knowledge in a subject rather than just constantly going to look “facts” up a book, it makes them mentally much stronger overall than those who just rely on book knowledge.

My nuclear physics professor only understood annihilation events through what he was taught back in grad school. He never questioned why annihilation events can happen. He only knew that it could happen, not what caused it specifically. When I asked him to explain why it happened, it threatened his ideas as he had no way to respond. It was not covered in his textbooks, so the answer could not exist. But, I was not restricted in my thinking that way (might be an autistic trait). I could see how the particle could break and form two separate light coils perpendicular to the angle of incidence. We did not get along after that issue.

BTW - There is another possibility of particle to light energy conversion other than annihilation events. This only happens upon great influence of gravity, as inside of a black hole. There are scientists trying to replicate those level of forces using magnetic fields here on earth, but they will likely not succeed. They are forgetting something major.



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15 Nov 2020, 5:56 am

I have noticed a similar thing with people who enjoy model railways on the model railway sites I am on where there are those who can create their own designs as they can see outside of the box, and there are those who buy ready made models and don't seem able to create... But there is another group who can build kits brilliantly... Far better then I can build them! But they are lost if they do not have instructions. I mean, really lost, and for them to scratchbuild... Well. They can if they can exactly copy someone else's work but they don't seem to be able to think how things can go together if they try to design it themselves? I do realize that the mentally designing process can take some time as I can be dreaming up plans in my mind for a few years before I am happy and go to make it, but somehow I have noticed that some very intelligent people lack the ability to come up with their own designs and I am intregued by this, because they can run rings around me when it comes to their knowledge...

A rather wierd thing... My Mums a writer and author. Now her first published book is under great demand. She has not had a penny for it. But copies are in such demand that people have been trying to get a copy at any price and they can't get one. (They were willing to pay a few hundred pounds!)
But the schools in the area wanted a re-print of her book as they have included it in the corricilum as part of their studies. (I hope my Mum will get paid something, but from the looks of it she is being taken advantage of again, as those who want it republised are going to change its cover so it is not classed as the same book etc). But anyway... The strange thing is that there will be people who are going to get qualifications in her book. It is an odd feeling for my Mum to think about that.

Part of the problem is though, is that schools in the UK have communistic agendas which promote copying, but seem to want to dampen down on origional thought as they want people who can end up as carbon copies of what society dictates they should be.

I am glad I saw what it was like in the 1970's as the opposite was promoted. Actually, it may account for the recent increase in those who are identified as being autistic because in the past, thinking outside the box was normal, but today it is surpressed in our education systems, so that anyone who is different, has a harder time trying to fit in, where in the past, being different was acceptable and celebrated.


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