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Adamantium
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04 Oct 2013, 3:15 pm

I have a lenovo laptop, a retina macbook pro and an imac. I run windows 7 on the lenovo ad mac os x on the macs. The imac dual boots to win7 and the mbp runs windows and linux in virtual machines.

I like them all. I prefer the aesthetics of the mac, all else being equal. I am building a Raspberry Pi system with my kids and this is now by far and away my favorite computer.

If you think the choice is Mac or PC, you are in a prison that you cannot taste, see or touch.



MyFutureSelfnMe
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04 Oct 2013, 5:00 pm

For desktop computing? That really is the choice.



Adamantium
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04 Oct 2013, 5:59 pm

I'm not quite sure I know what "desktop computing" is, but there is really no Mac vs "PC."

You could say "Windows" vs "Mac OS" because you may have software that requires one or the other, but if you have Apple hardware, you can always run Windows, so even that is not a choice.

The questions are: what do you need to do with your computer, and how much can you afford.

If you have that information, all sorts of possibilities become clear.



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04 Oct 2013, 10:38 pm

I have used PCs exclusively in my home life. I did use MACs when I was in grade school.


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MyFutureSelfnMe
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05 Oct 2013, 1:32 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I'm not quite sure I know what "desktop computing" is, but there is really no Mac vs "PC."

You could say "Windows" vs "Mac OS" because you may have software that requires one or the other, but if you have Apple hardware, you can always run Windows, so even that is not a choice.

The questions are: what do you need to do with your computer, and how much can you afford.

If you have that information, all sorts of possibilities become clear.


By desktop computing I mean word processing, spreadsheets, stuff that you can't do efficiently on a tablet.



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05 Oct 2013, 9:57 pm

Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.



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05 Oct 2013, 10:14 pm

jonny23 wrote:
Hmmm... re reading my post it seems I might sill be bitter at apple. Or maybe I'm still mad a bungie for selling out to microsoft. :lol:


Yeah, you do seem a bit bitter. So you are basing your opinion of OS X on one beta release 13 years ago? You do realize that OS X has had ten major updates since that beta release, right? It might be just a bit more developed, don't you think? :wink:



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05 Oct 2013, 11:52 pm

Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.



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06 Oct 2013, 4:00 am

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.


Yes, but the problem is PCs don't last as long. At the exact same time I bought my MacBook a friend of mine bought a 15" Sony VAIO. She spent $300 more then I did for my MacBook. OK she likes larger screens. Anyway the machine was total crap. She had nothing but problems with it and with in two years it was totally dead. Next time she decided to save money. She bought a 15" Toshiba Satellite for $400. It lasted less then a year. Her daughter dropped it on the floor. Yes I know dropping a laptop on the floor is bad. But this laptop totally disintegrated. Basically it broke open and the innards spilled out on to the floor, from the three foot fall. I'm not sure what her current laptop is, but I'm sure it's another cheap PC. She has now had three PC laptops in the same time that I have had my MacBook and she has spent twice as much money on them.

In the long run Macs are cheaper to own. Because they last longer, and they require less repairs. Again you get what you pay for.



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06 Oct 2013, 7:51 pm

This is possibly a dumb question, but if Crossover runs Access 2010, but 2013 is not listed, does that mean it doesn't run 2013?



Tollorin
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06 Oct 2013, 9:13 pm

Max000 wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.


Yes, but the problem is PCs don't last as long. At the exact same time I bought my MacBook a friend of mine bought a 15" Sony VAIO. She spent $300 more then I did for my MacBook. OK she likes larger screens. Anyway the machine was total crap. She had nothing but problems with it and with in two years it was totally dead. Next time she decided to save money. She bought a 15" Toshiba Satellite for $400. It lasted less then a year. Her daughter dropped it on the floor. Yes I know dropping a laptop on the floor is bad. But this laptop totally disintegrated. Basically it broke open and the innards spilled out on to the floor, from the three foot fall. I'm not sure what her current laptop is, but I'm sure it's another cheap PC. She has now had three PC laptops in the same time that I have had my MacBook and she has spent twice as much money on them.

In the long run Macs are cheaper to own. Because they last longer, and they require less repairs. Again you get what you pay for.

There is no reason a Mac would last longer that a PC, as it use the same components. Some Mac do break down too (From overheating, for example.) and when it do you may be unable to recuperate the CD/DVD/Blu-ray inside the driver, contrary to PCs that got a little hole on the driver to open it with a paper clip. Macs don't have the hole for esthetic reasons. (Look over function, the Apple philosophy.)



Max000
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06 Oct 2013, 11:45 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.


Yes, but the problem is PCs don't last as long. At the exact same time I bought my MacBook a friend of mine bought a 15" Sony VAIO. She spent $300 more then I did for my MacBook. OK she likes larger screens. Anyway the machine was total crap. She had nothing but problems with it and with in two years it was totally dead. Next time she decided to save money. She bought a 15" Toshiba Satellite for $400. It lasted less then a year. Her daughter dropped it on the floor. Yes I know dropping a laptop on the floor is bad. But this laptop totally disintegrated. Basically it broke open and the innards spilled out on to the floor, from the three foot fall. I'm not sure what her current laptop is, but I'm sure it's another cheap PC. She has now had three PC laptops in the same time that I have had my MacBook and she has spent twice as much money on them.

In the long run Macs are cheaper to own. Because they last longer, and they require less repairs. Again you get what you pay for.

There is no reason a Mac would last longer that a PC, as it use the same components. Some Mac do break down too (From overheating, for example.) and when it do you may be unable to recuperate the CD/DVD/Blu-ray inside the driver, contrary to PCs that got a little hole on the driver to open it with a paper clip. Macs don't have the hole for esthetic reasons. (Look over function, the Apple philosophy.)


You obviously don't use a Mac. My Power Mac G5 has been running 24/7/365 for ten years and has never broken down or over heated. Go on Craigslist and look at all the people selling 10 even 15 year old Macs in working condition. They are cheap, they are underpowered by todays standards, but they are still running. Then try to find someone selling a PC, that is that old.



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07 Oct 2013, 12:47 am

Max000 wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.


Yes, but the problem is PCs don't last as long. At the exact same time I bought my MacBook a friend of mine bought a 15" Sony VAIO. She spent $300 more then I did for my MacBook. OK she likes larger screens. Anyway the machine was total crap. She had nothing but problems with it and with in two years it was totally dead. Next time she decided to save money. She bought a 15" Toshiba Satellite for $400. It lasted less then a year. Her daughter dropped it on the floor. Yes I know dropping a laptop on the floor is bad. But this laptop totally disintegrated. Basically it broke open and the innards spilled out on to the floor, from the three foot fall. I'm not sure what her current laptop is, but I'm sure it's another cheap PC. She has now had three PC laptops in the same time that I have had my MacBook and she has spent twice as much money on them.

In the long run Macs are cheaper to own. Because they last longer, and they require less repairs. Again you get what you pay for.

There is no reason a Mac would last longer that a PC, as it use the same components. Some Mac do break down too (From overheating, for example.) and when it do you may be unable to recuperate the CD/DVD/Blu-ray inside the driver, contrary to PCs that got a little hole on the driver to open it with a paper clip. Macs don't have the hole for esthetic reasons. (Look over function, the Apple philosophy.)


You obviously don't use a Mac. My Power Mac G5 has been running 24/7/365 for ten years and has never broken down or over heated. Go on Craigslist and look at all the people selling 10 even 15 year old Macs in working condition. They are cheap, they are underpowered by todays standards, but they are still running. Then try to find someone selling a PC, that is that old.


You have me beat. My Windows Vista PC in 2005 I bought for $550 and maybe spent a couple of hundred to keep in shape is still running. No I do not spend my entire time fixing blue screens of death and cleaning out viruses. I don't spend any time doing that.


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Max000
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07 Oct 2013, 1:25 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Max000 wrote:
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
Max000 wrote:
Opi wrote:
4) i can get a PC or PC laptop cheaper than a Mac.


You get what you pay for.

My desktop computer is a Power Mac G5 that I paid $1,800 for in 2004. It's still running great with 10.5 Leopard. With upgrades to it, I have spent a total of about $2,500 on it. My total cost of ownership over ten years is $250 per year.

My laptop is a MacBook that I paid $1,050 for it in 2008. I'm still running 10.6 Snow Leopard on it. With upgrades (RAM, SSD, new battery, new power adaptor) I've spent a total of $1,500 on it. Cost of ownership so far, also $250 per year. But I plan to use this machine at least another four or five years. Ultimately the cost of ownership will probably be about $150 a year.

I'd love to buy one of those cheap PC laptops, but I can't afford to waste my money on something that will only last me a couple of years. And yes, cheap laptops only last a couple of years.


In both cases, you could have performed the same upgrades on a PC. Sure, build quality is a given with Apple and there are not many other manufacturers that can touch it.


Yes, but the problem is PCs don't last as long. At the exact same time I bought my MacBook a friend of mine bought a 15" Sony VAIO. She spent $300 more then I did for my MacBook. OK she likes larger screens. Anyway the machine was total crap. She had nothing but problems with it and with in two years it was totally dead. Next time she decided to save money. She bought a 15" Toshiba Satellite for $400. It lasted less then a year. Her daughter dropped it on the floor. Yes I know dropping a laptop on the floor is bad. But this laptop totally disintegrated. Basically it broke open and the innards spilled out on to the floor, from the three foot fall. I'm not sure what her current laptop is, but I'm sure it's another cheap PC. She has now had three PC laptops in the same time that I have had my MacBook and she has spent twice as much money on them.

In the long run Macs are cheaper to own. Because they last longer, and they require less repairs. Again you get what you pay for.

There is no reason a Mac would last longer that a PC, as it use the same components. Some Mac do break down too (From overheating, for example.) and when it do you may be unable to recuperate the CD/DVD/Blu-ray inside the driver, contrary to PCs that got a little hole on the driver to open it with a paper clip. Macs don't have the hole for esthetic reasons. (Look over function, the Apple philosophy.)


You obviously don't use a Mac. My Power Mac G5 has been running 24/7/365 for ten years and has never broken down or over heated. Go on Craigslist and look at all the people selling 10 even 15 year old Macs in working condition. They are cheap, they are underpowered by todays standards, but they are still running. Then try to find someone selling a PC, that is that old.


You have me beat. My Windows Vista PC in 2005 I bought for $550 and maybe spent a couple of hundred to keep in shape is still running. No I do not spend my entire time fixing blue screens of death and cleaning out viruses. I don't spend any time doing that.


Windows Vista came out in 2007. I suspect your PC is not as old as you think it is. Either that or you upgraded to Vista from XP, and I don't know why anyone would do that. Windows 7 maybe, but upgrade to Vista? Image



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07 Oct 2013, 7:45 am

Max000 wrote:
You obviously don't use a Mac. My Power Mac G5 has been running 24/7/365 for ten years and has never broken down or over heated. Go on Craigslist and look at all the people selling 10 even 15 year old Macs in working condition. They are cheap, they are underpowered by todays standards, but they are still running. Then try to find someone selling a PC, that is that old.

Except that back then Mac used different components that PCs with their PowerPC CPUs, not the case anymore now that they use Intel x86-64 CPUs; the same components as PCs and arguably the same life expectancy.



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07 Oct 2013, 10:19 am

wozeree wrote:
This is possibly a dumb question, but if Crossover runs Access 2010, but 2013 is not listed, does that mean it doesn't run 2013?


Not necessarily. All it means is that no one has reported whether it does or does not work with Access 2013.


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