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Orwell
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22 Sep 2010, 5:54 pm

lau wrote:
mcg wrote:
lxuser wrote:
Its actually more secure by design than windows.

How so?

Because Windows started from single-user MSDOS, with a bit of half-hearted security bolted on later. Then the NT variants came along, with their attempt to "outdo" Unix security, resulting in things like file security "creep". Linux started from the mature *nix stable, with solid security as standard from the beginning.

As far as I know, none of the old DOS code-base is remaining. NT was built new from the ground up, and it was designed to have largely the same feature-set as UNIX, including in security ideas. NT is not the stability and security failure that DOS was.

mcg: One issue off the top of my head is that Windows defaults to setting up the machine as a single-user system, meaning most people are running around on administrator accounts. Now, of course it is possible to set up a standard user account and use that instead, but the default setting should be one of limited privileges. No UNIX distributor that I know of is stupid enough to ship systems where the end user will run as root by default.


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CloudWalker
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22 Sep 2010, 6:54 pm

Starting from Vista, even Windows will strip the admin rights off the administrator unless UAC is disabled.



LordoftheMonkeys
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22 Sep 2010, 7:23 pm

mcg wrote:
lau wrote:
mcg wrote:
lxuser wrote:
Its actually more secure by design than windows.

How so?

Because Windows started from single-user MSDOS, with a bit of half-hearted security bolted on later. Then the NT variants came along, with their attempt to "outdo" Unix security, resulting in things like file security "creep". Linux started from the mature *nix stable, with solid security as standard from the beginning.

Windows NT has been multi-user from the ground up. Windows 9x and DOS are ancient history, and were designed to meet home computing needs years ago. So again, how is Linux more secure by design than windows NT?


Linux is not secure because of the way it's designed. It's secure because its low profile on the end user market makes it so that crackers have less motivation to write viruses for it. Security through obscurity is what it's commonly called. If Linux had native support for VBScript I am sure it would be a lot less secure.

There are also security holes discovered in Windows on a regular basis (just check out the monthly Microsoft patches). This is to be expected of any program that has millions of lines of code, though far fewer vulnerabilities are discovered in Linux/Unix-based systems. But then there are also far more people testing Windows security features than Linux. The point is that there is no such thing as a perfectly secure operating system.


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Orwell
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22 Sep 2010, 9:33 pm

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:
Linux is not secure because of the way it's designed. It's secure because its low profile on the end user market makes it so that crackers have less motivation to write viruses for it. Security through obscurity is what it's commonly called.

Commonly, but incorrectly. Microsoft actually employs security through obscurity—they try to keep security vulnerabilities a secret in the hope that no one will be able to exploit them before the next patch is released. Linux (and most of the rest of the UNIX and open source world) operates on a security policy of public disclosure, with any vulnerabilities immediately and promptly announced so people can start working on a fix and, if necessary, suspend use of the affected systems.

Quote:
There are also security holes discovered in Windows on a regular basis (just check out the monthly Microsoft patches). This is to be expected of any program that has millions of lines of code, though far fewer vulnerabilities are discovered in Linux/Unix-based systems. But then there are also far more people testing Windows security features than Linux. The point is that there is no such thing as a perfectly secure operating system.

Many *nix distros do undergo regular security audits, though, which means they have very thorough testing on their security features. OpenBSD in particular is probably about as close as you can get to a perfectly secure operating system.


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super_geek
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22 Sep 2010, 10:15 pm

only issue I have which is stopping me to convert from Win7 to Linux is I have issues installing things on linux if I could do that I'll just install WINE and dump Microsoft in a heart beat



Orwell
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22 Sep 2010, 10:25 pm

super_geek wrote:
only issue I have which is stopping me to convert from Win7 to Linux is I have issues installing things on linux if I could do that I'll just install WINE and dump Microsoft in a heart beat

What issues? Maybe some of us here can help you out.


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super_geek
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23 Sep 2010, 5:37 am

always couldn't install anything under Linux can't remeber why as I gave up years a go



Orwell
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23 Sep 2010, 12:42 pm

super_geek wrote:
always couldn't install anything under Linux can't remeber why as I gave up years a go

That's not very specific... but things have changed in Linux in the past several years. Ubuntu has pretty dead-simple point and click installation for almost anything you would ever want.


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CloudWalker
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23 Sep 2010, 1:48 pm

Yes, linux has improved quite a lot over the years. Your impression may be not representative of the today's state. Linux is not really user unfriendly and Windows is not really unsecure by design.



LordoftheMonkeys
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23 Sep 2010, 4:12 pm

I think there is a lot of bad publicity about Linux these days, and that is a major part of what is preventing it from gaining ground in the end user market. Every time I've seen or heard Linux mentioned by anyone but a Linux geek, be it online or in real life, they always have something negative to say about it, and most of the verbal interchanges I've witnessed concerning Linux are riddled with misconceptions. Things like Linux doesn't run any good software, Linux is hard to use, Linux is hard to install, use of Linux requires use of the command line, Linux is only for nerds and has no real-life applications, etc. I have even seen some of these misconceptions in textbooks on technology. And it doesn't help that Microsoft pays retail store employees to slander Linux and coerce would-be Linux users into using Windows.


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Jookia
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23 Sep 2010, 8:11 pm

Has a better command line.



Orwell
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23 Sep 2010, 9:49 pm

Jookia wrote:
Has a better command line.

And a better GUI.


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LostInEmulation
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24 Sep 2010, 5:46 am

Orwell wrote:
Jookia wrote:
Has a better command line.

And a better GUI.

So freaking seconded! As visually impaired person, I like the many ways I can tweak the GUI to make it usable.


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